SPEAKER_03 0:00

In Tragedy, a true crime podcast, we discuss missing persons' cases, violent crime, and other sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Our show is a place where every story matters and every voice deserves to be heard. To support this podcast, you can subscribe at www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com for early access to new episodes. And join our Facebook community, Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast, for updates, discussions, and ways to support the families we feature. Welcome to Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast. I'm Elisa.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

And I'm Michael.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Today we're joined by Tony Fletcher, Nick Hammond's mom and her husband, David. Nick was just 36 years old when he was shot and killed in the early morning hours of October 1st, 2022, near Northeast 162nd Avenue and Sandy Boulevard in Portland, Oregon. More than a life lost to an unsolved homicide, Nick was a son, a father, a brother, and someone deeply loved by the people who knew him best. In the years since Nick's murder, Tony and David have continued searching for answers while trying to make sense of a case that still leaves so many important questions unanswered. Today we want to give them the space to tell us who Nick really was, what was happening in his life before his death, and what they have learned about the night he was killed, and where the investigation stands today. Thank you for being here and welcome to the show. Thank you for having us. We really appreciate it. So before we talk about what happened to Nick, we just want you to tell us about your son. Who was Nick and what would you want people who only know his name from this case to understand about him?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Nick was a character. He grew up on a farm in Ridgefield, and he was always very busy and was inquisitive. And he went to school in Ridgefield from kindergarten to his senior year, graduated high school, and later went into the Marine Corps. He had some trouble late in high school, and then it seemed to like escalate in the Marine Corps. And then after the Marine Corps, he just was on this downward pile of all kinds of behavior and exposed to and involved with many different things that he shouldn't have been involved with. His name is also Nick, and he has another son, Levi. Levi lives with his biological mom, and his son, Nick, lives with David and I.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

So you started out by saying that he was a real character. Can you tell us a story about that?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

He had a big heart. Uh, we were down at the beach one time, and there was a guy sleeping on a bench, and Nick had like $10 to his name, and he pulled it out and he gave it to the guy on the bench.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

Well, that was that sounds very generous. It sounds like he had a generous heart.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

He did. He um also to this day, people tell stories about him. And I hear from his friends, and they're just checking in. And one month we had three different friends from high school come to our house for one reason or another. Like the our other kids were helping build a shop, and two of them showed up to help build the shop, also. And then another time we had some landscaping done, and one of the boys Nick grew up was there with the landscaping crew. And he had asked me, Have you heard like got any communication from Nick, like anything? And I'm like, you know, now that I think about it, three of his friends came to our house in the last month.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

To me, that feels like kind of a wrap around support of the people who were important to him. I mean, just making sure that you that you guys know that they're there for them.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, I think as oh, go ahead. Oh, and then further in his life, he did some fishing in Alaska. And his training in the Marines was mechanic, a diesel mechanic. And he also did some wildfire training.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

So he had a lot of things that he was interested in mechanics and wildfire. And we have a commonality with fishing. We are big into fly fishing. Um, we have not been to Alaska, but I know we will get there.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

It's on the list.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

It's definitely, definitely on the on the list. Can you tell us just one of your fondest memories of him from maybe when he was little or in middle school?

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah, middle school. I I loved going to his wrestling meetings or um, and he went to state one time. Wow. And he had bleached blonde hair that year. And I remember not so well a little before Nick passed away, I sent it to him as a joke. And he he didn't think it was funny. And then let's see what else. Oh, for my screensaver on my phone, I have a picture of Nick. He's in a red and black fleece with jeans on and tennis shoes, and he's sitting in a swing in seaside. And I that's probably my best memory of him, a good memory of him. And I get to see it daily hell Nick on.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

That's really nice to have that memory for sure. Thank you for sharing, you know, all those good memories you have about Nick. And so we want to kind of transition a little bit into the events surrounding his death. And we'd like to start with your recollections um of how you found out that he had been killed.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

I remember that David and I went to our friend's house that night that I was supposed to hear about it, and I had forgotten my phone at home. So when we got home, there was a voicemail from his girlfriend, hysterical, but didn't give me any information. So when I got home, I tried I missed several calls from her. I tried calling her and calling her into the early morning, but she didn't answer. She didn't answer the next day, even though I was calling and calling. And I believe it was the third day she finally got back to me and let me know that Nick was dead. And then I think I went into denial because I met his girlfriend in town. I had her show me where he was, what she knew. And she's like, You're so calm. And I think I was just in denial that he was dead because I hadn't heard the whole story. And then I called after a couple of days, I called the morgue because it dawned on me that'd be a good place to start. And the first time I called the morgue, they said, No, Nick Hammond is not here. And so then I was really thrown off. But then I called back and maybe asked, maybe someone else answered the phone and they told me he was there. And then I remember falling apart and David having to take the phone while I went to my bedroom. Am I on the right track of what you want to know?

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Yeah, I have a follow-up question right away. We're both making these very confused faces. It it sounds like what you're describing is you had to figure out what was going on. You didn't get a call from law enforcement, you didn't get a call from anybody. This was in your court to figure out, which is quite disturbing.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Right. I didn't hear from the morgue, I didn't hear from the police, I I had to, yeah, search for what was going on and go to the site because it was on the news, and then go to the site that it happened and just try and put all the puzzle pieces together. And I talked to a few of the people of businesses in the area, but everyone was pretty shook up.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

I can recall from reading uh several of the media reports that you sent us that there appeared to be sort of a time delay between when he was killed and when he was publicly identified. And I'm wondering if that you were trying to figure that out during that same time frame.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Yes, I was trying to figure that out during that same time frame. And I think possibly why it took so long is the weekend that Nick was murdered. There were three other murders. I just don't think they got down to it right away, like at the morgue.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

I think we're both just kind of like shocked in this moment because we've we've spoken to several families who've experienced um an unsolved homicide in their family, and and you were the first person to really describe how much of the onus, I guess, was put on you to just even figure out where your child was.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Right. And I'm the next akin. And no, they tell his drug-riddled girlfriend, and then she doesn't give back to me for three days.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

It was terrifying, and I thought I was going crazy. Like it couldn't be real. I couldn't find any information, even though I was every place or called every place.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

Well, even the inconsistency of calling a place and them saying no and then saying, Oh, by the way, yes, like that's a systemic problem that again is uh usually I will use the term unsettling. I'm gonna actually knock it up to disturbing because that's just wrong. There's just no have you ever had an apology from the morgue about that?

SPEAKER_01 10:12

No. And neither from the DA or the detective that, although at first we were communicating pretty well, but you know, they were quickly over it, kind of like the media. And I I do believe the DA or the detective apologized for not getting a hold of me. I mean, no one came to the door, no one called, you know, so it it was really unsettling.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

Yeah, that that's terrible. Can you explain to our listeners? Nick, you and Nick didn't are not living in the even the same state. So you can you kind of describe where he is living um and what was going on in his life in the weeks and months leading up to his death?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Nick was living in Portland, and he I believe him, his girlfriend, and her sister were living in a voucher-based hotel. Do you know what that is? I do not. Okay, so I don't know for sure, but my impression was that people who need housing who are houseless get vouchers to stay in hotels run by the state. So it kind of gets them off the street, but not out of what they're doing. So he lived there for two years, and I had never been there. Um, Nick would come to my house in Kalama, which is about an hour drive, maybe a little 45-minute drive, and um visit his son here at the house. And, you know, there were it was pretty obvious that the I he did not have the ideal situation living or activities. But he did come by and check in and visit and see his son.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

So we can tell from the reports that a lot of the media named him as homeless. And it seems like he was not actually homeless, rather, he was accessing supports um that are provided to the homeless in that area so that he had, you know, a place to live and wasn't homeless on the streets. Am I understanding that accurately? Yeah. Okay. Can you talk more about what may have led him to be uh in that position? Drug. And so so talk more about that for us.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

So I think, because I've of course done a lot of reflecting that he had I think, you know, mid to end high school, he experienced, experimented with drugs. But then before he went into some Marines and in the Marines and after the Marines, he was a full-blown addict.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

And then came back from the Marines in that unfortunate situation. Yeah. Yeah. So during those two years, how did he spend his time? What was he was he working? Was to your knowledge, what was he doing during those two years?

SPEAKER_01 13:16

He was a mechanic and he would do a lot of side job for people who needed it, or he would, you know, be in contact with a shop that would hire him, or I think he probably stole things and sold them. Uh I think he, you know, I can barely imagine because I would it I never dreamed that he would turn out like that.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

Seems like he was using the skills that he had to just kind of not really make ends meet, but just to survive. Yeah. And what was the last time you or someone in your family um had spoken with him or had some kind of contact with him?

SPEAKER_01 13:57

So he came over in May of 2022, and then he he was there for his son's birthday, and then we did not see him again, and and then he was uh murdered in October.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

Now, I did hear you say that you were able at one point to connect with his girlfriend, and she took you to some of the places that are important to, I think, Nick's story. I'd like you to talk more about that and specifically if you have an idea of the proximity of where he was killed in relationship to the hotel that he was staying at.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

David, where do you I don't know exactly where the motel was. Oh, because you didn't hire first.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Okay. So 181st uh Halsey Halsey area. It was called the extended stay on Sacramento Street.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Roughly 20 blocks by four blocks to the north.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Did you hear that?

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Yeah, so that's a pretty good piece. That 20 blocks, if I'm thinking city blocks, I'm from the Denver area. When you think about, oh, I'm gonna walk a few blocks, 20 blocks is a pretty good walk. And Portland is a it's an urban area, so I would imagine that they're not necessarily super close in proximity, is what I'm getting at.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Right, but he was driving.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

Oh, okay. Talk about that. That's a new piece of information.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Okay. So his girlfriend told me that he was working on something and they weren't at home, and they were on 162nd in Sandy, is where he was murdered. So then when I got that information, I went to the plaid pantry because it's right on the corner of 162nd and Sandy, and asked them if they had video, and they said they did, and I'm like, Well, what can you tell me what happened? And they really didn't want to, but they said that Nick was on camera, pulling into the parking lot in front of the store, kind of in a hurry, got out, walked around his car, got back in, then left the parking lot, took a right to a neighborhood. So he took a right and then another right. And then there were phone calls that there were 40 to 60 shots fired. And then, how I understand it, came back by the plaid pantry, took a right towards home. But I don't know when in this time he was shot. They were chasing him. He ended up uh dying in the car in the there's a lumber yard across the street from there. And I went there and they had a camera, and they said they only knew that it was on the camera and that they knew he was dead when he slumped forward and stopped moving.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

When you say they, do you know who they is in that sentence?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Um, it was two people that I talked to at the lumber store, and at the plaid pantry, it was one of the clerks that I talked to. In fact, it was the manager.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Let me let me s state the question better. Um you said they were chasing him. Do we know who they is?

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Oh. You know, I have a really good idea, but I I can give you an initial, but uh, you know, that's fine. They're bad they're bad people.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Yeah, we'll we'll we'll leave the names out for now. I'm just curious what you do know.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

I know of about seven or eight people who either for one example, one person came to the celebration of life and handed my daughter a a piece of paper with her name and phone number on it, and she wanted to talk to me. And the detectives weren't in interested in that. And then the other people were his close friends. They had, you know, like four, five, six of them that hung out all the time. Every one of them I talked to, and every one of them said that they were no one's gonna tell because everyone's feared for their life.

SPEAKER_03 18:17

So it sounds like there are several people who kind of have an idea of what may have happened and may know who is involved or potentially involved, but they don't want to say because they're afraid. Exactly. And I'm going to just make an assumption that the people that they're afraid of are somehow related to the drug issue that Nick was experiencing. So let's talk about law enforcement. What did investigators tell you about what they believe happened at the scene that night?

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Basically, they didn't tell me much, but one time when we were talking to the DA, he said it was kind of like a drive-by shooting. The only thing the police said was You couldn't see anybody on the video. Yeah, I because I've been bugging them for all the years for the video because I know it exists. And finally they said, Well, there's you can't see the faces on the video because I'm like, I can probably help. I knew these people because I hung out with with Nick. You know, we we didn't really socialize with them, but he'd mentioned their names or he'd want went to school with them.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

So were you saying the actual shooting itself was caught on camera?

SPEAKER_01 19:29

I don't believe well, you know what? I do believe that parts of it were. And I bugged them the whole last four years. And just recently, I'm like, we need to meet. And he's like, okay. And then he said, I want to make sure you know you're not seeing video or anything to do with the case. And I said, Well, why would I come then? And he goes, Well, people do for different reasons. I'm like, Well, I just thought we could help with, you know, we might recognize someone. And he said, I can tell you that no faces were seen on the videos. So I think, I don't know how many videos there were, I only know of two, but I think at the I heard here, you know, hearsay from someone that after they shot him, they came back and shot him again in the car when he was like suffering.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

And if that's what happened, that would definitely be on the video from the lumber yard. Because that's where the car came to arrest. Right. I just want to uh name for you that we we experience unfortunately a very similar thing that you are experiencing with law enforcement. We with um Michael's uncle, unsolved out of our our hometown. We've actually had a chance to meet, not with the sheriff, we never get to meet with the sheriff, but uh with the lead investigator and the information specialist. And they don't, they don't really, they won't tell us very much. And it's super frustrating, right? They will say, well, it's open and active and we can't tell you these things. And then we're like, but wait, like, how can we move the case forward? How can we help if we can't get certain pieces of information? And so it it just feels very, I don't know what word to use. It's very conflicting for me because I get their desire or perceived desire to hold information back that could solve the case, but then at some point I think you do need to release some of that to help the case. I agree. It's very, very frustrating for us. I I heard you say that you met with the DA. I I find that really interesting. Can you talk to us about how you came in contact with the DA and what you guys were talking about?

SPEAKER_01 21:41

So, like, I want to say a month later, six weeks later, I get this phone call from the district attorney's office, and they're wanting to set up an appointment. I'm guessing just to tell me about it or if I had any questions or tell me, give me some resources. That you can use when you are affected with a crime like that. It was nice getting to talk to them, but they never really told me much, like, other than it was like a drive-by shooting, and he the DA said, well, this is a DDA, the district attorney um said that he was there that night. So the DA gets a lot of people get called to a murder, evidently. And he said that he wanted me to know that Nit died fast.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

You're saying it's your perception that a member of the district attorney's office was at the location where he died the night he was killed? Yeah. That's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Well, that's not abnormal. I mean, we talked to Kathy Decker, who operated in Washington, and um she indicated that it's not uncommon for the DA to come on scene um to help with probable cause and all kinds of things like that. So for this state, I would not consider this abnormal. I do have a question, because we we understand there was also like I think it was three other shootings the same night. Did they ind give any indication that those were related or not?

SPEAKER_03 23:05

I never heard in either way.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Or that if any of those were solved. Are you aware of that at all?

SPEAKER_01 23:15

The last time I looked at the oh, of that weekend. Yes. Daddy died. Mm-hmm. Um No, no, I didn't get any word. There I just was thinking of some statistics about the murders in Portland in 2022. And there were like a hundred and one, I think, and Nick was number 70. And I had I got that information, but nothing else.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

Yeah, and you shared that with us, and that's something we're definitely going to dig into. Our listeners know that my husband here is a data analysis analyst, and that he's definitely gonna be looking at that data and you know, maybe even mapping where those things happen, taking a look at any that are solved, any kind of patterns that are happening there. Um, so that's definitely a move that we're gonna make. I appreciate that. That's great. Yeah, that he he loves this kind of stuff. I want to ask again about um local law enforcement. And did they recover any evidence or tell you about any evidence, such as maybe shell casings, his belongings, or anything else that they thought was significant?

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Um, I wouldn't say they volunteered me information, but I did extract from the DA and the detective that I wanted his personal belongings, and they told me that I couldn't have them because they're evident. And then I asked about that again recently, and I think I told you this, I texted you this, that when I talked to him, he said he was going to forward the evidence to the Oregon State police crimes where they do testing and see if there's any other tests they can do on these belongings, but they won't release them to me.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Yet, maybe. We do know uh Michael was just commenting, Kathy Decker, who's uh one of our partners that we've met along the way. She actually lives in the Pacific Northwest and she told us about something called the the Replevin Law, which we've shared with some of our families. And and this is a law that uh formalizes the release of personal information once the law enforcement determines that they either have what they need from it or personal belongings, not personal information. Sorry, personal belongings, thank you. Once they uh are done with that, they don't feel like they need it or it's not relevant. So that's something let's keep in touch with that because we definitely don't want to, you know, tell you to get stuff back that might help, but there could be things that they don't need anymore, and you know, we can talk more about that Riplevin law and see if we can get some of those things back to you. Did you say that it had been several months since you had spoken with him?

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Yeah, September to September until the day he passed.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Okay. Do you remember at that time him you know, sharing anything with you that was concerning to him? Anything that he was frightened about, well problems that may be connected.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah, no. I mean it wasn't like that when he came to visit his son. He was always, you know, attention on his son, and he never really I don't know, maybe because I feel like we never enabled him. We may have early on in addiction, but caught right on. I don't I just think he or respected us enough that he didn't want us to know his trouble. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Yeah, I I I hear that. And when you compare what you've been told privately to what has been released publicly, what do you think the public is missing? What what pieces of the story do you want to use this platform to tell?

SPEAKER_01 27:01

I think I would need help with that. I don't think I could say that off the top of my head. I maybe could I mean they there would it would be nice if there's more transparency. And the detective told me that if it goes to on to be a cold case, they still don't give you his stuff. They don't still don't tell you anything. And they ha it's like they have no regard for family or victims or parent or anything.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

Really frustrating. Yes, we are nodding our heads. We are experiencing the same with Michael's uncle. And really what we are advocating for is just some proactive move on the part of local law enforcement to reach out to the family as opposed to what we have experienced and what Michael's family has experienced is it's up to them. It's up to them to call, it's up to them to go in, it's up to them to hold a vigil. And, you know, we're not discounting how busy law enforcement is. We we get that. But I don't think it is that out of the ordinary or that hard to send an email, even if it's once a month, or actually pick up the phone. Hey, how are you doing? Um, you know, we there haven't been any new leads this month, but we want to make sure that you know that we're still working on it. Like, I don't feel like that's that challenging, and and that's what we are asking for in Jody's case, and and I I would I'm going to advocate for that in your case as well.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Thanks, because it's so true. I've had several occasions that I leave a message and I don't hear back for two weeks, so I call again, and that's just normal. It wasn't at first, but it is now.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

And Jodi's murder was uh 2014. So they're coming up on, you know, 12 years uh out of an unsolved homicide. And and law enforcement shows up at the vigil, they hold a vigil every year, um, like you do, uh, and they'll show up there and you know, shake hands and give hugs and hand out bracelets. The, you know, the day-to-day of what they're doing, it just feels like it's lacking.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Exactly, because they tell you to call. At first they're nice, oh, call us anytime you need to. We can meet once a month if you want to. And then they like avoid you. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

Yes, we've act to actually know that um our local law enforcement has actively told one of our families um to stop talking to us because we're creating too many tips. Too many tips that aren't real tips. And so stop engaging with us. And we're like, Well, how do you know a tip isn't a real tip until you follow it up?

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Exactly because they tell you s they how do I put this? They lie to you when you s say s you know, they just I don't know. I don't it it's playing games, it seems like mind can I say a cuss word?

SPEAKER_02 30:04

You can say whatever you like.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

It's like mindfuckery. They they g you don't you know, you don't know what's real after they get done with you. They have so many techniques and tricks. Yeah, and it's not always straightforward and you don't get answers and you're just on this merry-go-round, an ugly merry-go-round, like the horses have no eyes or head.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

That no one should be on. That shouldn't even exist. Exactly. I know that people have come to you and said that they want to to say something. Do you then reach out to local law enforcement and give the contact information to local law enforcement? Do they follow up? Has anyone come forward officially that you know?

SPEAKER_01 30:50

So what I'm hearing from the detective is they need someone who is directly involved come forward. And I believe most likely he has interviewed persons who know s know information, but they won't say because they're afraid for their lives. What happened to Nick's car? So I don't even know if that was his car. I'd never seen that car before. So I don't know if it was a friend's or he stole it or whatever, but I guess it I'm guessing it probably went to a crime lab and it's probably stored somewhere for evidence. I did get that letter in the mail, I think I sent you a picture of. And I called it to try and get information and they wouldn't even tell me who it was registered to.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

So you're not aware if that vehicle had any biological evidence or anything that might help create, you know, a broader picture of what happened because no one's telling you anything.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

That car had to have evidence because he was shot to death in it and settled for which Yeah. And I just don't I don't know because uh they won't relinquish the evidence.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Well, if someone is listening um that was with Nick or know or knew him that night or saw something or heard something, what would you want to say directly to that person?

SPEAKER_01 32:18

If you're afraid of dying when you give up information, ask for protection. You can say something and they won't tell who said it until the trial.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

Yeah, there are lots of ways we have learned for people to um make an anonymous tip. I know in your sorry, in the Portland area area, there's a Crime Stoppers. Um Right. Yep. And we get it. We we are fortunate to not have had run-ins with law enforcement, but that is not everybody's path. And there are definitely times when people have information, but they do not want to relay it directly to law enforcement. Um, and that is why those things are in place, right? So that people have a way to share that information anonymously. And I think what you're even talking about is kind of like a witness protection setup, um, which we also know is is an option, I think, at times. Uh, we also have a tip line, and I'm just gonna read it now. It is 850-888-0437, and people can leave any tips on that um number as well. What we do with that information, if there's any identifiable information, we we scrub that, and then I will actually call law enforcement directly and share that tip. So this gives another opportunity for people who may know something but do not want to come forward and be known to be able to reach out. And and one thing our our listeners know we say this very often is it's not our responsibility to determine if something is relevant. It is our responsibility to share the information and let law enforcement determine its relevancy.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

That's that's great. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

Um, and as we close, can you talk about just the impact that has happened, impact of Nick's loss on your family?

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Of course, David and I are devastated. It's really affected his son Nick. Levi, on the other hand, is autistic, so I don't know how much it's impacted him. We had a real struggle with his son Nick for a few years, up until this last year. He just kind of came out of whatever he was going through, and he's turned around and he's graduated school and he's excited and he's talkative, and you know, it it takes a long time to grieve a loss like that.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

Well, and we have also learned grief is just so different. There's no pattern of grief for anyone. Uh, we have we were fortunate enough to come in contact um with a person named Nick Gaylord, who is he has a podcast on grief. And when we met him, we realized we needed to speak to him because everyone that we are speaking with is experiencing grief. And so he came on our show. And I think this has been a really good resource for people, not just for people who are experiencing grief, but for the people who are supporting those people. You know, he he talks about exactly what we're doing here is giving people time and space to be able to speak about their loved one, which is uncomfortable and can be uncomfortable. And sometimes people don't want to do it because they're they feel uncomfortable. But we know that it's really important that you have this opportunity to speak about your son so that that so that we can say his name and people do not forget him.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

Thank you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

And is there anything that you wanted to share about Nick or about his um death that you did not get a chance to share?

SPEAKER_01 36:07

You know the people who know something but won't say something, I'm gonna drop some initials or first letters. There there's a group of them. It's an M, a T, a D, an A, a K, another D, and a J and an E. Those people knew what was going on. They've told me they knew it was that something was going on, and that Nick was fearful for something, and they had hung out with him for weeks, two weeks straight before this happened.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

And you would like for them to come forward in some way. Yes. In a productive way. Right, in a way that will move this case in the direction that it needs to go. Right. You've been listening to Tragedy, a true crime podcast. Our purpose is to honor victims by sharing their stories through the voices of friends, family, and those whose lives were forever changed. If today's episode resonated with you, we encourage you to subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast so these important stories continue to be heard. Together, we can preserve their memories and ensure their voices are never forgotten. If you have ideas for cases we should cover or questions about what you heard, you can connect with us through our Facebook group, Tragedy a True Crime Podcast, on X at Tragedy Podcast, by email at TragedyAt True Crime Podcast at gmail.com, or by visiting our website www.tragedyatrucrime podcast.com. Thank you for listening, and we hope you'll join us next time.