SPEAKER_02 0:00

In Tragedy, a true crime podcast, we discuss missing persons' cases, violent crime, and other sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Our show is a place where every story matters and every voice deserves to be heard. To support this podcast, you can subscribe at www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com for early access to new episodes. And join our Facebook community, Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast, for updates, discussions, and ways to support the families we feature. Welcome to Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast. I'm Elisa.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

And I'm Michael.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Sometimes fresh eyes can make all the difference. When families are searching for answers, independent investigators often bring a different perspective, reviewing evidence, asking difficult questions, and following leads that deserve another look. Today's guest is Lindsay Smith, the private investigator who has worked alongside Crystal McCrory's family as they continue seeking answers. Lindsay has spent time reviewing the case, examining the available evidence, and helping the family navigate a complex investigation. Today we'll talk with Lindsay about what drew her to Crystal's case, the work she's done alongside the McCrory family, and why she believes this investigation still deserves attention. Lindsay, thank you for being here and welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. We would like to start by learning a little bit about your background and what led you to become a private investigator.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Sure. So I started prime investigations and legal services in 2021. I had ultimately wanted to be a homicide investigator for Houston Police Department and through a series of events, didn't end up making it through HPD. I fractured my leg in my physical agility test, found out I was pregnant all at the same time. And ultimately somebody said, Has have you ever thought about being a private investigator? Other than watching TV shows about private investigators, I knew almost nothing about it. I had been working on my master's in criminal justice from Sam Houston State. Private investigations was just not on my radar. I wondered how I would get clients, how any of that would work out. And somehow here I am today.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

I was about to say the experience of breaking your leg and finding out you are pregnant at the same time. I used the term the universe wanted you to go in a different direction. And you're saying the same thing, just using different words.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yes, that is exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

What types of cases do you typically investigate?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

So I would say about 50% of our work is service of process, divorce papers, things like that. And then we've got the investigation side of my company. Uh we actually do a lot of criminal defense for Harris County, Fort Bend County, some of the major counties around the Houston area. Um, but we also do your typical is my spouse cheating on me. And then we I had a true passion for any sort of death investigation that goes into my background of wanting to be a homicide investigator. So I think years ago, one of my friends, her brother, was killed. It was ruled a drowning, and she said to me, Will you take a look at it? I was a brand new investigator. I was like, I don't even know, you know, how to read these police reports essentially. And I did write an article about this case that was published in Pursuit magazine, but we ended up getting further into the case, rule figuring out that he didn't actually drown. And uh now it's a federal matter.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

What you are talking about really resonates with me. Our listeners know that I am a retired special education teacher. And almost any special education teacher you talk to has a story. When I say, What brought you to this? They have a family member who um needed an additional level of support um at school. Or in my experience, I came in contact with students with special education needs as a middle schooler, not knowing at the time that that's where I would go. So I think it's really interesting that your, it seems like the origin of your work came from a story that really was close to you and stuck with you.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yes, that organic type of development, which is what's turned me into the investigator that I am today.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Something that has happened to both of us as we've gone through this journey of our of our podcast is we've talked to several different types of experts. Uh, we've talked to people who search for missing vehicles and people who go missing with their vehicles. And then we go, ooh, we probably should couldn't, we would have done that, we would have been great at that, or we talk to this other person who he analyzes statements for deception, and we go, oh, that would have been a great career for us. And this happens the same with private investigators. In fact, we've kind of talked about a private investigator license for one of or the other of us. So could you talk about how did that journey go from 2021 or when you just when you learned that the typical route you weren't going to take, you were going to open up your own private practice. How did that even happen for you?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

So in Texas, to get your private investigators' license, you either have to have a bachelor's degree in criminal justice, you have to have so many hours in being a police officer, or you can work for a private investigations company and earn hours that way, uh, earn years of experience working for another PI company who takes you under their wing. So for me, it was actually one night I was sitting on the computer. There was a Facebook feed, somebody said something about just somebody knocking on their door in the middle of the night or at 9 p.m. And the woman said, Well, I'm just gonna open up my door and shoot whoever is at my door if they're at my door that late. And I was like, so I emailed the admin. I was like, this person's an idiot. Like that is not the law. You can't just shoot someone because they're on your property. And he said, Well, how do you know about the law? I said, Well, I'm working on my master's in criminal justice. And he said, I own a private investigations company. I would love to talk to you more about becoming a private investigator. And it was at that same time that I had just, you know, failed the physical agility test. And that was like, okay, this is a sign that obviously I maybe do know what I'm talking about as far as the law. And then here's this random situation where this guy reaches out, his name's Tom Norris, and asks me to come on to his company, uh, priority protection and investigations. And I to this day um owe everything to Tom, and Tom knows that. So we're still good friends. And he's like, I ultimately knew you'd be opening up your own company and you'd make a great investigator. And so I owe him everything.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

That's amazing. But what you said made me think of a story because um I know this is not right, but it it was something my grandfather told me. So you're telling me that I can't shoot someone through the door and just drag him inside and then call the police.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Because um, I was all I've always thought I could do that. So that you're saying I can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

I think it's good for our listeners to know you can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

I don't fear for your life. That is kind of the key element there. If they are in your backyard, they walk through some fence, and you have a reason to fear for your life, then it could be used. Um, but that's gonna be a very great area of the law.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Well, it's good to know because I mean, if this is not legal in Texas, out of all the states out there, I figure it'd be okay with Texas to be the one. So that means it's probably not legal anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

No, we do joke. Well, you've got to have them in the house. Um, what that is. Yeah. Don't just shoot them on your property.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

So she knows the joke, too.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Well, we should probably let Lindsay know that you, you know, your grandfather wasn't law enforcement.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

He was also a law enforcement officer.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Yeah. So let's talk about Jana and meeting Janet and supporting her and what she's trying to do in reopening the investigation. So, how how did you come in contact with Jana and learn about Crystal's story?

SPEAKER_00 8:30

So, I've probably been working with Jana oh about two and a half years-ish now. It was right after uh Crystal's death that she reached out to me. And I believe she had read my article in Pursuit magazine. Um, it's called unsuiciding. And that was a term created by my friend Eli Wilkerson. He's like, You have a way of unsuiciding people. It's looking at these homicides that have been ruled suicides. And in reality, only about one out of every 10 death investigations that we do actually are homicides. So it's it's very rare to find these cases like Jana's, like the other one that I wrote the article about. But that was ultimately how Jana found me, was it was through that article.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

And so you came into this case pretty quickly after it hasn't in many of our stories, there's been a time period that passes in between maybe somebody going missing or an unsolved homicide before someone is involved. It sounds like it was much different in this case.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Yes, it was. It was very soon. I don't remember the exact time I wish I did, but I want to say it was within within a month or two. Um, I'd have to go back and look at me and Janice's emails and phone calls. But I still remember that initial call with her was one and a half to two hours long. And I was like, this definitely deserves a second look. Like sometimes I'll get somebody on the phone and I know this sounds bad, but I know within a few minutes if they're just crazy or wanting something to be something else. Uh, Janice was not that way at all.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

And so what are some of the first things that you do?

SPEAKER_00 10:13

I like to figure out what the police have done. So getting any reports that the police have, I love reading the autopsy reports, talking more with the person who calls me, getting a good feel for their mental the way that they're dealing with this case. Like I said, sometimes people want things to be more than they are. Um, so I kind of go through a client intake of is this going to be worth the amount of time? Uh, is this gonna be worth the money to them? There are plenty of clients that will call and I'll tell them what you're wanting, I can't do, and I'm not gonna even quote you for this job because it's just not gonna be worth it in the end.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

But I want to ask you um specifically about reading the autopsy report and what you can and cannot maybe discern from that. But first I want to tell you why I want to ask you that question. Our listeners know that what brought us to this work is um Michael's uncle was murdered in his driveway um during the day, and it will be 12 years since he was killed with no arrests and anything that have happened to move the case forward, which is why we started our podcast. And we attempted to get as many records as we can. This is new work for us, um, and reading police investigative reports and um evidence logs and things of that nature. They name it an open and active case. And because of that, they will not release any medical records or an autopsy to us or anyone in the family. We would love to have that. We think just like as laymen, that there are certain things in the autopsy report that maybe you could tell and not tell, and that is why they will not release it to us. I would just love globally. Can you talk about some of the things that an autopsy report can tell you?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Um, it can tell me about alcohol or drugs in their system. A perfect example is I had a case um where a man had his family wasn't sure if he had committed suicide or whatever else it was, a jumper style case. And in that case, just looking at the bones that were broken in the body, we were able to tell kind of how he hit the ground. And that in itself tells a story. I don't know how graphic you want me to get, but like in a in a jumper case, if you've got bones that are smashed on the bottom of your feet, that kind of points us to, okay, they jumped on their own. It wasn't like they were falling on their back, something like that. Um, so it all it all really does tell a story.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Yeah, we we have a suspicion that due to the nature of the injury that his uncle ultimately passed away from, that there's some level of maybe determining some characteristics of the person who killed him in terms of maybe height. And we're thinking maybe that's why they won't they won't give it to us. But we really, we're just speculating.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Yeah, we're speculating, but there's two primary, I wouldn't say suspects, but just people of interest. And one of them is large and one of them is not. And so I'm kind of interested on right and left hand and if there's any approximation that can be made on the height of the person that attacked Jody. And since we can't get the medical report, we can't make that determination.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

They will not give you the autopsy.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

They will not.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

No, or the you know, and obviously Michael is he's family, but we have also sent um Jody, his uncle's sisters and his mom, um, to the sheriff's office to request the medical report, and they deny them every single time. We OIAD for it, they won't give it to us.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Wow. And what is their reasoning for it?

SPEAKER_01 14:05

It's an open and active investigation. That's right. That's all we ever hear.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

And do they give you the name of the person who's actively working it?

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Um, yes, we have that.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

And we've met with them in person. Wow. And we asked again for the medical career report when we were like face to face with the uh PIO and the lead for uh criminal investigations. And again, they said no. They it took me a very long time to even get anything from my foyer request. Uh eventually, I think, gosh, it must have been almost oh, close to a year, and they did send us something. I got really excited, and it had evidence logs, which took me forever to figure out how to read. Um, the first supplemental report of the first um law enforcement officer on scene, and everything after that is redacted.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Wow. Is there any way that it could be linked to somebody within the department?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Well, that's an interesting question. I don't think so, but this is a very small town and everyone knows everyone.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Interesting. That is wow. I can't think of a a case like I'm trying to think if I've ever not gotten one or been able to get one. That is that is something. It's uh it is.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

It's you can see why it gets intriguing really fast.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Yeah. Sure. And we've been able to um partner with several organizations, iris, which is on the kind of the Pacific Northwest. Um, they are made up of retired homicide investigators, trackers, forensic examiners, all retired, and they do work for families. And then also we have a connect with someone who used to work for the behavior analysis unit for the FBI. Both of these groups have reached out to the sheriff's office and drafted a letter. We want to help you, we're happy to help. And they don't, they don't respond at all. We even said we would step out completely.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Um and never speak about it on the show.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Yep. And they still don't they don't take on any help.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

They won't take on any help from anyone else because they're like a small town. They don't want, wow. Wow. What state is it?

SPEAKER_01 16:14

It's in Florida.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Interesting. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Um so thank you for that. Um, a little side conversation about the autopsy. Um, very, very helpful for us as as we continue to support um our family. So let's go back to Crystal. And without revealing anything that could compromise your investigation, um, are there aspects of the case that you feel deserve a closer look?

SPEAKER_00 16:40

I do. There, I I do have many things about this case that deserve a closer look, or I think ultimately even just deserve an apology to Jana from the Sheriff's Department for not doing their job properly. At this point, my belief is that we will never be able to prove one way or the other. All the evidence that we needed is gone. It was never collected in the first place. For example, a gunshot residue test on Crystal's hands. Like we couldn't wrap this whole case up if we just had that one little bit of evidence. Uh, but that wasn't done. Why wasn't it done? And I think that the sheriff's office just needs to really apologize to Jana and say, I'm sorry that we botched this so badly that you'll never have your answers. That that's huge to me. I think that would go a long way with Jana and her family.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Um, one of the things I'm curious about is what aspect of the case convinces you that it's not a suicide?

SPEAKER_00 17:47

I wouldn't say that I'm convinced a hundred percent that it's not a suicide. I think there is the possibility that it is. But again, so many things were done wrong. The bullet casing not being found until days later. There are a lot of things about Tony's behavior and the broken camera at the front door, other things, you know, Tony getting a new phone, other allegations made against him. I've got my theories for I could make a case for either side, it it being suicide or it being a homicide. And that's why I say ultimately we'll never know. Um I'm not I'm not convinced 100% that it wasn't a suicide, but there are things that deserved a closer look and things that could have been done to make it 100% it was a suicide, or 100% it was a homicide.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah, I mean, one thing is I when I start thinking about some of the details of the case that we know, and I I same thing about about the the casing. I don't like the fact that it was found days later. I also don't like don't like how it was found.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

And so especially where there was conver you know conversation with the um the police officers involved indicating that oh the the bullet casing is prominent in the pictures that were taken at the crime scene, and we've looked at those um pictures at this point. I'm not seeing anything prominent about a shell casing. Right. So I don't know what they're talking about. And the second thing was you know, as far as the other side of it, I also don't like the fact that we we have a lot of antidepressant medication involved and we're changing we're changing medications around this time period, which is whenever you you increase your risk. I mean, we've all seen the commercials, you know, that we all know the risk of suicide, they're talking about commercials. Um again, that's not you know something that says, oh, definitely this is what happened, but it it certainly doesn't paint the picture in the direction of homicide either.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Right. Correct. I've I've had that same thought. Um, another one of the things that kind of stands out to me is the pillow over her head. Uh, women are very vain. Typically, women don't use guns to kill themselves. Women will use poison hanging uh pills, something like that. So the pillow over her face, maybe she's protecting her face from that trauma, but that also doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Like if you're attempting to commit suicide and you're putting that you want to make sure that you're successful in what you're trying to do, as terrible as that sounds. And I don't feel like through a pillow really shows the conviction of what she was trying to do, if that was her holding the gun on the other side of that pillow. So that's something that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because the pillow bothered me as well. Because I was thinking, you know, there was no blood inside the track of the bullet would have taken through the pillow. So obviously it was on top and shot through first before it went through her. And so I I mean, I look at that more as a suppression or control and maybe to avoid getting blood on you if you were actually the person pulling the trigger.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

More so than something that someone would have done committing suicide. To your to your point, it could act it actually gets in the way of success in a lot of ways. And so um, yeah, that's the pillow bothers me a lot.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Yes. I I agree. And you know, was she held down and then shot, or yeah, we'll just we'll never know because an investigation was not properly conducted by that sheriff's office for so many reasons.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

I want to ask you about uh what Jana has done, and and I want to just describe to you that we in all of the stories and families that we're supporting, there's always one person that's like the fierce advocate, the one that we call it keeping all the receipts. And so I know Jana has a I don't I don't even think comprehensive uh covers it, comprehensive timeline, very thorough that she has created. Um she shared with us, I know you have it as well. And I'm just really curious will that work that she has done and that timeline that she has created and the documentation that she brings, how How has that um played a role in your investigative process?

SPEAKER_00 22:03

The I think it's great that she has kept that much info. I can you know scroll through, find names, find how they tie with people. It's been instrumental. And I also feel like that is a great way that Jana is releasing all of her feelings. She's getting all of the answers in one spot. For her, I think that that it's helping Echo with everything that she's been through. And it's it's almost this tool, this legacy piece for her that that you know will be there forever for anyone who ever looks at this case. Um, there's just so much detail there that I think when you and I initially spoke on the phone, I was like, I don't know that I could read that whole report again. Like it would take days. Um she's just that is her, I wouldn't say diary, but in a way it is getting all of her emotions, all of all of this info in one spot. Um, and it's truly, I haven't seen another case like it. So it's it's remarkable.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

I really appreciate how you brought that human perspective to to that document that she has created. I had not considered it as a way for her to cope. And and I do think it is a journal. It, you know, it is a diary of what she is um experiencing and the path that she's walking with the evidence that she's collecting at the same time. And I I just really appreciate you kind of couching it in that. I think it's something that we can share with some of our other family members who we know are struggling and and not maybe, I don't want to say they're not coping because everybody copes in a different way, but maybe it's an outlet for some people that we know are struggling coming on the podcast and talking about their experience and their loved one is one way to do that. And and I I kind of like this idea of maybe offering this uh to some of our other families as a way of uh I like the legacy work word that you use, I think is what really sticks out to me.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Yes. That's I mean, it really that's what it is. Um, and I cannot imagine the the time that has gone into that. Because if it would take me days to read, you know, she had to organize these thoughts. And I mean, it's obviously taken our years to get to where it is.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Yeah, it's an electronic binder. You know, I I picture her on the floor with all of these things spread out and binders and three ring punches, and and then she's collecting all this information and she's putting it into an electronic format, um, which is I think sometimes easier for people to consume.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

That's interesting. I was envisioning it slightly different because I was imagining the big board behind with the red string going to all the different areas. And so anytime I think about investigations, I know that's not really how it's done, but that's that's what always enters my mind.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Well, I am still very much a pen and paper type of person. Um, I, for every single case I have, I have a physical folder. I cannot do everything online. Like I have to print things out, highlight things, any autopsies that I get. Like I print those out. And I've joked about it on Facebook before that I will sit in the bath and read an autopsy report, and they're like, My husband will be like, Aren't we supposed to be relaxing? I'm like, oh, this is very relaxing.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

See, I'd walk by and I'm like, I feel like I've seen this movie.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Yes. But I am very much the same in some of our uh families that we're supporting. We were able to get what looked to me like pretty detailed FOIA. And then I went out and Michael bought me these really nice highlighters. And so I'll highlight certain things blue and certain things yellow. And we had something come up in one of the stories that we're covering that might mean something. So I took my paper copy of the foyer out that we received several months ago and I read it again. And I found things that I missed the first time because we have a different perspective going into it. And I have spirals with all of the yeah, I'm the same.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

I'm also I'm also curious about how many, many strange looks we must get we don't notice. Because we'll go to like a brewery or a pub or something like that, and we'll we'll have the bag that we carry with us. And um we we will go through the cases and we'll just have conversations and knock around ideas and prepare for questions and look for look for holes. I mean, we're looking for holes to ask questions on and to maybe even help with the investigation if we can. And um, it's got to be a strange conversation for people to overhear while we're doing it.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yes, there are text threads that I'm like, God, I hope nobody ever reads that because that makes me seem very odd. Uh, you know, getting excited about um finding a new piece of evidence. Or, you know, just with one of my investigators the other day, I was like, oh my goodness, like this client, it's it's gonna be so fascinating talking to him. It's a homicide type case. And uh he's been charged with homicide, so going to visit him in jail. And I'm like, I can't wait to get in his mind and ask him these questions. I'm like, I'm sure I seem very odd to be excited to talk to these murderers, but uh it is it's fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

But you've probably watched Mindhunters like eight times in a row.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Oh that's one of my very favorites. Oh, yes. I was so sad when they decided to not make any more seasons of that show. I love it. I should start that over tonight. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Yeah, we've watched it through a few times, and I always tell people the character that freaks me out in that show every time is the guy they found to play Ed Kemper. Um not only is he a dead ringer for the guy, but also there's a statement he says in there that has always creeped me out. And when they're talking about what they've learned from serial killers, he goes, Well, you've only really just learned from the ones you've caught. And I was like, Oh crap, that's a deep statement when you think about it.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yes. No, there are uh I think statistically, one in every hundred people has killed someone, whether accidentally or on purpose. I'm I'm pretty sure that's the statistic. I need to go look that up, but I I want to say that's what I learned uh in one of my classes.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

So pretty much scared the crap out of me.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Yes. That's what we're gonna do next time we go to a place that has more than a hundred people in it.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Who is it? Who did it?

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Yeah, either accidental or on purpose, but one in a hundred. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

I am a big consumer of true crime, and when I found out about podcasts, that that's literally all I listen to. And I learned pretty early on that when I roll my window down to get my food at the drive-thru, I have to turn my podcast off because it could be something like you were mentioning, and people are like, What a weirdo! And it'll say something, and I'm like, Oh, nope, sorry I'm all good. Thanks for the fries. I learned to turn it down.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Yes. Oh, it's funny. I'm in a few uh nights, there's a women's group. Um one of my friends, her and her friends, get together and talk about different podcasts. And they said, Do you have any cases that you could come and talk about? Um, and I said, Actually, I've been on a few podcasts. I was like, This will be awesome to get in this group of women. And but I'm sure in the middle of the restaurant we are going to look a bit weird.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

So well, not for me. I I might just grab a chair and join if I heard that. What would you like the public to understand um about the events around Crystal's death and Jana's desire to get the investigation? It's she doesn't want it reopened. She wants an investigation of the investigation, if I'm understanding correctly.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Right. Um, I think ultimately what I would and and Jana knows this too. I think, like I said before, this won't ever be solved. We'll never know for sure without a confession from someone. Um, maybe on somebody's deathbed years down the road, somebody will confess to something. But without that, this won't ever be solved simply because the police messed it up so badly. From the minute that Tony called his neighbor to go check and them having ties to that police department themselves, like it should have been Tony's not allowed in that house. He's the spouse. You're that's the first person you look at. It being ruled a suicide almost immediately. There's just so much we will never have that answer. And so what I think needs to happen is just a formal apology from the police department or the sheriff's department to Janna saying, I'm sorry that we can't give you any more answers and that we messed this up so bad. Um, and we're gonna work on changing our policies. One main issue in the US is there is no one right way to do things from department to department. Harris County Sheriff's Office has a completely different protocol than Houston Police Department, and they cover the same areas essentially. There needs to be some sort of unified way of doing things across every single department. Um, and the perfect example of that would have been the GSR testing on the hands. Uh, when they found a gun at the scene, okay, let's test everyone here to see who has gunshot residue on them. That that sticks out to me as a necessity for cases like this.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Oh, I couldn't agree more. I mean, one thing that we've talked about on the show as well is we found the justice system to really more be more dialed in for the criminal. That's number one. And I think a lot of people we talk to agree with that statement. But also we found that it's very person-dependent. And so, therefore, you know, you have areas where they have a lot less problems with their procedural processes, but in reality, it's less about a unified procedure and it's more about someone within that department or someone associated with that department that really takes a special interest in these cases that gets them the drive forward and gets them solved. Unfortunately, we found the vast majority of people we talk to, their impression of law enforcement is it's an eight to five gig that they don't care. And I think there's some truth to that, but I also think some of it is the caseload and it's it's way overloaded. And I mean, these the the people that are involved in investigations and things like that, they are certainly not set up for success when it comes to just the sheer volume of work that there is. And I tr I try to take that into account when I see things fall between the cracks. Now, sometimes there's egregious things like the gunshot residue. I mean, in in in any kind of shooting, why are you not doing that? Um, and even in the Jody Kilgore case, which we we've talked about quite a bit, if you watch the the news report that was going on the day Jody was was stabbed, I mean you can just if you ignore the reporter and just look in the background, you can see people coming in and out that shouldn't be there. And we actually found out that they, I think they ordered sandwiches and had them delivered to the crime scene and then were smoking cigarettes and leaving that all in the crime scene. So they spent right, they spent tons of money on you know analyzing all this these details, this evidence that they picked up at the crime scene just to find out that they were just ruling out their own law enforcement officers. So what a colossal waste of time and money. And then what did we damage as a part of that process that creates the same problem that we have in the Crystal case? How will we ever know now without some kind of confession because we've trampled what possibly could have told us something?

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Yep. And another aspect that goes into homicide investigations, a death investigation, the average death investigation costs a police department about a million dollars in resources. So you'll see some lower income type cases where essentially you can almost just tell the police as bad as this sounds, say it's not worth the money to it. Like it is worth the money. It is worth that to these families of these victims. But from a fiscal standpoint of the police department, they're like, no. Um that first case that I was talking about, you know, we w her brother had been a drug dealer and was known by law enforcement. And I think sometimes they see that and they're like, oh, okay, just another drug dealer off the streets, like, we're not gonna invest the time in this. That shouldn't be how it is. But that is the reality of what we deal with. And your police officers are overworked. And I think about just the things that I see that you know could put nightmares in my brain. Police see that 10 times more than I do. Um, so that's it's difficult to um kind of think about w what these officers are going through. Now, then I work the criminal defense side and I can pick apart these reports where they make stupid mistakes when writing reports, or they lead a witness into a statement, and I'm like, okay, we're getting this case dismissed easily because this idiot cop did this, um, or worded something wrong, or used the wrong words in the report that they're writing. Um, at the end of the day, we're all humans, but some of the things in Crystal's case are just so insane that you can't help but blame the the officer.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Is there one particular that stands out?

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Uh the the GSR test is is something that stands out. The the fact that that bullet casing wasn't found until days later by Tony. Why did we not go looking for that casing? Why did we not figure out where that was that day? Um, you know, was it wrapped up in the blanket? The blanket got thrown from the bed later on as they remove her body or whatever else. Why did we not find that that day? That's that's key.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Something that we do when we uh get into a new case. I I join all the Facebook communities uh of the area where someone has gone missing from or the homicide occurred, something of that nature. And we share with those local communities, people who live in the community, people who may have heard of um whatever kind of story we are covering. So we will be sharing this whole series with uh people in you know in Louisiana, in in the parish where this happened. And something that we have learned uh is, and we have to keep saying this over and over again, is that it is not the community's responsibility to determine what is and is not important to an investigation. Rather, it is the that is the police, that's the work of the police. So if someone was listening today uh and has some information, no matter how small they think it might be, what would you encourage them to do?

SPEAKER_00 37:44

This sounds terrible, but I mean I don't I think the police department is so tired of hearing about this case um that they won't do anything with it. I would almost tell them to reach out to Jana. And they're welcome to reach out to me as well. Uh I can't say that I would make much of a difference in the case at all. I've attempted to call. Multiple people have attempted to call. Um, but I think talking to Jana about it, calling a different police department in the area doesn't really help. Like this sheriff's office is just being so stubborn with this case. I honestly don't know what could be done. You know, who you would want to report that to, other than Jana herself, because she is, she's done such a good job creating awareness, reaching out to people. The the number of people that she has touched in this investigation is, like I said before, something that I have not seen in any of my other investigations. She's just made such huge progress that maybe she would be able to tell you, this is who you need to tell this to.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Yeah, that that's a really interesting perspective. We almost always tell people, call law enforcement, but I understand you, and it kind of makes me think a little bit differently, maybe about some of the decisions we've made. We also will push people towards crime stoppers, the local crime stoppers in the area, if they, you know, in a situation like this, or sometimes people don't want to go to law enforcement.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

And don't forget, we have our own tip line as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

I recommend that all the way.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

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