SPEAKER_02 0:00

In Tragedy, a true crime podcast, we discuss missing persons' cases, violent crime, and other sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Our show is a place where every story matters and every voice deserves to be heard. To support this podcast, you can subscribe at www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com for early access to new episodes. And join our Facebook community, Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast, for updates, discussions, and ways to support the families we feature. Welcome to Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast. I'm Elisa.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

And I'm Michael.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Today we're joined by Luke Trudowski, Melissa's husband, and someone who has spent years standing beside her as she searches for answers about her sister, Deanna Maryfield. Over the course of this series, we've had the opportunity to hear from several people whose lives have been touched by Deanna Merrifield's disappearance. Through their memories, experiences, and perspectives, we've gained a deeper understanding of who Deanna was, the events surrounding her disappearance, and the lasting impact her absence has had on those who continue to search for answers. Luke brings a different perspective to the conversation. While he never had the opportunity to know Deanna personally, he has witnessed firsthand the impact her disappearance has had on the people who loved her. He's seen the determination that has driven Melissa's search, the emotional toll of decades without answers, and the hope that continues to fuel the family's efforts today. Thank you for being here and welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

So our listeners have spent this series getting to know Deanna through the people who loved her. But before we talk about your perspective, can you introduce yourself a little bit and tell us how Deanna's story became part of your family story?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

So my name is Luke Twardowski. I am Melissa's husband. We met in um 1995 in high school. And uh I was lucky enough to convince her to marry me in 1999. She's been my person for almost 30 years now. And uh so we've gone hand in hand through our entire adult life together, pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

And we saw that connection firsthand when we had a chance to meet you guys for the first time a few weeks ago in Las Vegas, which was really cool to connect with you and just spend some time with you and have a conversation. So we'll further the conversation here today. So let's talk a little bit about when you first learned about Deanna and what were your initial impressions when Melissa shared Deanna's story with you?

SPEAKER_00 2:56

So there wasn't particularly one moment where, you know, everything kind of came out, right? So we, you know, like I said, we met when we were in high school, and it was five years after um roughly uh Deanna had gone missing. And so, you know, it kind of started coming out in in kind of parts and pieces throughout the years because it's generally not something you start a conversation with, right? As we kind of got to know each other and I I learned more, it was it was something that I was not myself accustomed to in my life, right? But it seemed like already at that time, it was so much a part of her and her sisters and family's life. Um, it was just kind of already it entered into the DNA and you could kind of see the the impact. So from my perspective, it was really kind of a an eye-opener, you know. I was very young too, so it was an eye-opener on the kind of like the rest of the world, but just kind of amazing to see kind of how they're still functioning, right? Um, how they're still going through their day-to-days. And it was it was uh a gradual process to kind of come to understanding.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

I can connect with this a little bit, although it was several years. I think we had been together, Michael, for gosh, maybe close to 18 or 20 years before you told me for the first time that there was an unsolved homicide in your family. And I I don't really know why it never came up because to me, I'm like, that's kind of an important thing. And I feel like so. When we were driving one day, he's like, you know, we have an unsolved homicide in my family. I said, What this is information I I feel like would have come across sooner, but maybe like it just didn't fit in it at some point.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Well, the big thing for me is I had moved away and you know, I'd kind of become disconnected from the story, and I I understood that there was an investigation going on. I understand it was a challenge. I lived in Denver when this occurred. So I wasn't directly connected to it. And it really, it's the only thing I can really say is it didn't feel real until we were, you know, at home on from my original home from you know in Crawfordville, and we were driving down the road, and I saw the weathered sign about the Jodie Kilgore investigation and murder on the side of the road. And that's when I brought it up. I'm like, you may not realize this, but this is my uncle. And I that's when I told the story, and um, that's where it kind of all started.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

That's absolutely where it started for us, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

It's a it's amazing how it's kind of part of you, but it's it you have to kind of almost compartmentalize at times, I've noticed, or things like that. And and yeah, it's yeah, again, it's not like you know, here's here's a bio, right? When you first meet somebody. So it comes comes out organically and and again is part of like I said, it's it's part of their their life, their their DNA already by the time I had met the family. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

What what you just said is actually really funny because I I did actually meet Michael by reading his bio because we met on e on eHarmony. And I literally read your bio and you read mine, and I don't know, right, left, whatever which way you go. EHarmony connected us. And that's certainly not in your bio, but it's like you said, it's not the first thing you put on the by the way. And it this journey for me has been real interesting getting to know his family in a much deeper way. Because I I know for a fact, if we had not started this journey, I would not be connected to Jody's sisters and his mom in the way that I am. And it's because that we we decided to do this podcast and that I was able to link up with the family, just like all the other families that we're serving. That's true. So is there a particular story maybe that you've heard about Deanna that just really sticks with you as you're kind of building a picture of, you know, Deanna?

SPEAKER_00 6:58

It's not necessarily one kind of singulary, as much as uh I guess what is more in my mind is the overall impression. And it's really from kind of Melissa's perspective, how they were close, how they interacted, that I I have kind of a just a mental image of who she was and and how she was almost third hand, I guess, from Missy's eyes, right? I do have I mean I've seen you know pictures and you can see her as a a child when she's excited at Christmas or things like that. And you can kind of see um through that lens kind of the the growing up, but mostly it is um, like I said, the the the impression of who she was that really sticks in my mind most.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

And I the same from you know, Michael talks about Jody and his experience um when you were a child, and Jody always hung out with all the kids instead of going the adults, and and I just had this, I have this picture of this sort of figure man, kind of husky guy, but he's out running around with the kids. He's throwing the football, taking the kids fishing. You know, that that's kind of the picture image that I have as I've listened to your family talk talk about him. So you and I are in similar experiences.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Agreed. Very interesting because I I I definitely know if I was in the age group and around, she would be somebody that I would have definitely wanted to hang out with. Uh, you know, like when when Melissa says she was her protector and and and things like that, um that really is the impression, right? She was headstrong, not really, you know, um I shouldn't say headstrong per se, but not really one to to shy away from things. So really just really wish that uh I could have met her.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Feels like somebody that you would have connected to.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Yes, loading up with Jody and going fishing. That would have been great.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Well, let's talk about um your experience uh as a husband and supporting Missy through this journey. So what has it been like watching her dedicate so much of her life to this search for answers?

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Uh first off, I'm I'm unbelievably proud and just wildly impressed with how strong she is and and how much grace she has, right? Um there's a lot of you know, in in in in this situation, right, there's a lot of opportunity for a whole cavalcade of just different emotions, frustrations, um, you know, hope and and realization and things like that. And and she's always been probably the hands down the strongest person I've ever met, um, but also has you know just a a grace and strength about her that uh is I have a unique perspective because we got married, uh we were 19. So um we were you know kids ourselves, and so we kind of uh uh grew along the way together. Um I was busy, you know, forming my prefrontal cortex, as it were, and and it's just she's just been steady. And not to say that there's not been hard times, but you know, she's just really unbelievable, unbelievable um amount of, you know, I don't want to say grit, but grit. It's it's hard because there's ups and downs, right? It's a roller coaster. There's there's moments where you feel like things are happening, or you're you're kind of seeking answers and you maybe are getting some answers, and then there's periods of nothing. So it's definitely been an emotional roller coaster. Um, and on top of that, you know, we're still living our life. You know, we we we had kids, we were, you know, trying to function in society and things like that too. So it's been very um amazing to kind of walk by her with this.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

It's our understanding that things started really, you talked a little bit about times when things are happening and times when things are not, and it's our understanding that 2007 was a real pivotal year. So can you talk about that and your experience with Missy and getting that case reopened?

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Yeah. So, you know, especially like I said, we were we were young and and when Deanna went missing, um Liz was a child as well. And so as you kind of start to grow up, you you you hear things from family, or you hear things and you know, you you hear, you know, this is just the way things are, um, or you know, what can we do? type of deal. It's it's very challenging, especially in the 90s, right? Um, where we didn't have that level of access to um as much information. And then you could see that it was something that was just on our mind, and really it just gets to a point where it's like enough is enough, and let's try and find answers. And she hit that point in 2007, started reaching out. She had actually a little bit before um as well, but that's when really, you know, she she really started pushing um to get answers and really started to make connections, and it really is kind of tied to, you know, um, if there's an investigator who's engaged, you know, if there's even that little bit of engagement, you you take it and you run with it, right? And you start to kind of go from there, and she just kept pushing and pushing and pushing.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

So one thing I wanted to ask about is when I remember we were sitting there at the table and she was kind of telling various stories. And one, I I I mean, Lisa may have already known this, but I didn't know. But she actually went around with investigators and knocked on doors and things like that. And it seems like there'd be a certain amount of fear because you don't know what happened, you don't know who's involved, and now we've got Missy knocking on doors for with people that may or may not be involved. I mean, um, what was that like?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

You know, it's it's kind of a mark of courage, right? Fear is a defined by doing the scary thing, or courage is defined by doing the scary thing, even if you're afraid. And there was that um element of, yeah, I should be afraid, but she was just so driven and just tenacious with I'm I'm I'm not going to not get answers or not going to not try. And so, you know, she's she's gone, like you said, knocked on doors, talked to people, tried to, you know, find things um out, or you know, uh just any avenue that becomes available, uh, she just tackles it. It's unreal. Um, how she's not going to be stopped by anything. Um, if there's an opportunity that presents itself to try and find out information, she's gonna, she's gonna go get it. And so it's very absolutely impressive. It's one of those things where we wish there was, you know, many, many, many doors to knock on, and and one of the doors is gonna be the right door. And I think that's how she looks at it, is you know, one of them is gonna be the one that that uh gets us answers.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

I'd like to talk a little bit about uh engagement with law enforcement and some of the methods maybe that Missy has used to be able to establish that engagement. And I'm asking because in in some of the other families that we're serving, we're really having a hard time. And maybe it's just person-dependent, investigator dependent, but we pretty typically struggle either us connecting with law enforcement or whomever is leading the case or our families as well. And it'll be months and and and they hear nothing. So uh can you can you just talk a little bit about what that engagement looked like? And I know it's tenacity. And is she calling? Is she going in? Is she emailing? Those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Absolutely. Calls, emails, check-ins, um, you know, starting, starting the finding Deanna website, a presence on on social media, things like that, getting people aware. Um, it's it's one of those uh unfortunate situations when you deal with law enforcement where uh A, a lot of times they're overtasked. Um they have a lot of things to do. B, sometimes when uh investigations are evolving, they have to kind of go at a certain pace, right? And it it has been a long time, but it's even a minute is too long, right? Um, when you're looking for answers for a family member. So um it can absolutely be frustrating. And I'm sure from the law enforcement's perspective, um, you know, it's frustrating for them as well because they are motivated just as much to try and, you know, solve these cases or figure out what what's happening. Um really it is kind of a little bit of you have to recognize that A, they're people, right? They're they're people trying to do the best job as possible. Um sometimes you'll run into individuals who see it more as a job and and less as, you know, this is a person's life. That that does happen. But you you do run into kind of those individuals who are willing to talk or you know, work in their off time and things like that. And so being able to recognize those individuals and really trying to connect with them is um is very, very helpful. And it's you know, it's one of those situations where you know everybody has um their own upper leadership, and there's probably politics involved on the back end or things like that, which can be intensely frustrating for families. It seems to be the more families we talk to, a a common theme that there's friction with law enforcement because trying to solve the same problem, but going at it from different angles and different ways. There's there's times where sometimes it almost feels uh from from them to us almost cold, right? Um or almost mechanical in a way, but I think that's kind of part of their process and what they have to do to be able to kind of get to the answers. And sometimes, you know, if if there's not resources being committed to it, um then you have to really just start asking that question, you know. Um the squeaky wheel gets the grease, right? So keep asking that question, keep being persistent, keep being like we're not going away. We're we're we are here till the end, right? So um, you know, finding out what the what is what is what's the motion in the case? What are you doing? Um, you know, what are you looking into? How can we help? Right. Um, even that can kind of be a a challenge, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Oh yeah, it's really it's really good to hear you say that, um, you know, regarding the tenacity and calling and being the squeaky wheel. We talk about that quite a bit on the podcast, and it's been one of the biggest challenges that we've seen. Is people um like very very often the cases we pick up, the first thing we ask is what's going on with law enforcement? And they'll say, Well, nothing. And so our next question is, well, what are you doing? And we find out that, oh, I sent an email three months ago and I haven't heard from anyone else. And, you know, we we we kind of have to go to the pro through the process of, yeah, that's not gonna be near enough. You know, there's some there's multiple challenges, as you can imagine. I'm sure you faced it on your site as well. And we've looked at it with the Jody Gilgore case to start with, and we've seen it in every case in some in some form. So, like for instance, you know, people will call and I'm getting once a once a month or even once a year updates, and I just send an email I haven't heard back from anyone. I was like, okay, you have to knock on doors, you've got to start making noise. You know, some people look at this as an eight to five job, some people don't. Um with even with Jody Kilgore's case, I think a lot of the mistakes made in the initial investigation were based on politics because there was a there was an election going on with sheriff at the time. And so you had various people within the same department because they were competing for the next run of sheriff that were not cooperating with each other. And as a result, the loss was what the hell happened with the investigation? Because there doesn't seem to be much of an investigation there. Um, and there was a lot of mistakes made at scene, and I found out, I mean, we have several you know conversations that we've had off the record this point that we can't go into the details, but we found out basically that there was active almost sabotage, if you for lack of a better term, going on between different people in the investigation. And the the people who lost from that was the family. That's who lost. And, you know, how much time was was squandered away while those those clues and those that evidence just evaporated over time.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

And I had the same feeling when I look at some of the details of this case, you know, what happened initially, why I wasn't taking it seriously. The biggest thing that stuck out to me was we closed this case twice without really any explanation.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

And that's that's has un unbelievably frustrating, right? Um, in in general. And it kind of touches on um situations like this, um, or having to deal with law enforcement or investigations like this is not really something that's taught in school, right? Um, so in situations like this, there's a lot of times where people um will think, okay, well, the law enforcement, the the police are on it, the cops are on it. I have faith, they're gonna do their job, and there's kind of a different reality, right? There are now organizations that will help with, like, you know, this is how you kind of do things because it's in the moment, especially when something uh happens, you're not equipped at that time to go into learning mode. Well, now I've got to learn, now I've got to reach. Now I've got to figure out who's the person to call. Whereas there and there's no real clean, easy way. And back then in the 90s, there was even less of a clean, easy way. And um, I think one of the things that really sticks out to me and frustrates me and is a term that I absolutely um now almost hate myself is the term runaway. Yeah, especially in the 90s, you know, different mindset, you know, it is what it is, but you know, oh, they're a runaway, you know, they'll they'll show up. And there is this prevalence of, you know, a lot of times when runaways get reported to police, they they return within X period of time. But um, as Melissa likes to say, you know, like it doesn't matter if she's a runaway or they're a runaway, they are running away for a reason. The people who are put in place to help protect us in society should focus on what is that reason, you know, why and and treat it just as as the same. Because that was really the the um kind of the the stumbling block was uh it's a runaway. We're not gonna really try, you know, from the police department's perspective. Um, and and even some people were like, oh, I guess they just ran away. And that's um, you know, police people in the community um were just like, oh, that happens. And it no, it really doesn't. Um, you know, it I mean, uh sure it it does, and and children return, but then, you know, why did somebody call from the house uh uh later and say that she's back and with no follow-up? And why did you know uh their grandmother have to call and check on the status of the case and find out that it had been closed to get it reopened to only have it closed again? It's just incredibly frustrating, even understanding what the 90s were like, it's incredibly frustrating that there was so many spots along the way where um you know it it it just I I like I said, I don't I don't know how uh uh Melissa's you know uh been able to kind of not just scream repeatedly, kind of looking back at the way that it started and the way things went.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Oh and oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Oh, I was gonna say, and and ultimately it's it it it it was a child who you know is missing. Then it doesn't matter kind of, you know, did they run away, were they, you know, what happened? You need to know what happened. And that's somebody's sister, that's somebody's daughter, that's somebody's friend, right? It's just mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

And it's not unheard of, you know, particularly situations where they say, oh, somebody ran away, they'll come back. But even our in our little small microcosm of tragedy, a true crime podcast, we we see this situation predominantly, it sticks out for me as far as closing the case and not communicating um with uh homicide of Latanya Thomas, who was she was allegedly strangled in a blood clot formed in her neck, and she had a stroke and she did not recover from that. And an investigation did happen at the time. Brief one. A brief investigation happened at the time, and a probable cause document was taken to the state attorney's office, and they did they choose they chose not to uh move forward with that and file charges, which I get because sometimes, you know, maybe they feel like they don't have enough evidence, but they closed the case. They said, Oh, we don't have enough, we closed the case. So then the local sheriff's office said, Oh, okay, we'll also close the case. And then when we hear about this, almost 10 years later, the family says, The case is closed.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

And it's so it's I mean, we've talked to eight families, and and we we have an experience that is very similar to what you are saying.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

It's absolute it's absolutely unreal. And you know, like at this, at this point, right, especially 35 plus years on, I think people sometimes feel like they can look back now at the history and and see the mistakes that were made. And there's almost that element of defensiveness trying to move forward. Like nobody's trying to point fingers, nobody's trying to, you know, lay blame. Maybe people are frustrated with the way things are going, but now is the time to look at everything and actually let's let's let's find her. You know, it's it's kind of creates almost this feedback loop, as it were, where like there was a mistake made. Um, and and it the ownership of that mistake seems to sometimes pass down the chain. Um, where you know uh a new uh a new officer takes on the case. Well, you know, they don't want to say anything bad about their their brother or their um you know fellow police officers. So, you know, they'll they'll own it and treat it the same as if it was their own. And and it doesn't matter if it was a mistake or not, just move forward, right? That's that's you know, just move forward. Let the let the family know. Let the family know.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

I couldn't agree with you more on that because you know, the big thing for me is okay, cool, mistake was made, we acknowledge it. Don't make more mistakes because of a previous one.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Start getting things on track. Start making up is is not the right the right word, but oh, I think what I'm getting at is what are you doing? I you can't control what happened in the past. What are you doing now? And what are you doing in the future to move a case forward? And don't be obsessed, uh, you know, obsessed with just trying to either minimize or even cover up the mistakes were made in the past. I'd rather just, okay, we made a mistake. We're working on this, we're moving forward, and this is what we're going to attack next. That's all you have to do. But we spend so much time talking about the mistakes of the past. We can't fix those.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

We cannot fix those. And and even just processes, things that the, you know, the just the procedures that they did in 1990 as opposed to how they would approach something now are completely different. Oh, yeah. The law enforcement is continuing to evolve, and and we we understand that, and we are more than willing to always work with law enforcement um and just would just want to know what happened. Melissa, the family wants to know what happened. Um, you know, it's not to say, oh, lay blame at anybody, it's want to know and bring her home. That's that's that's a pretty heavy weight that uh Melissa's been carrying for way longer. And and the family have been carrying for way longer than any family should should have to. Her, her sisters, you know, it's it's it's just a lot to put on them.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

It makes me think of the word like resolution. Um and they're really my perception of of as we get to to know and and speak to families who are experiencing what you all are experiencing. And like that resolution is that's not the right word. It's not a resolution, it's a let's let's bring her home so that they have that piece back, you know, so that they have her back with them. And it I don't I learn more and more as we do this that resolution is not the right word, justice is not the right word, closure is not the right word.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

She was a person. She mattered. And when people matter, you you you find them, you bring them home, and you, you know, you it's important. It's important to those who loved her or love her, it's important to those who knew her, it's important to any person who ever goes missing. It's it they matter. And some sometimes it feels frustrating when kind of that feels like it's lost sight of. Um, you know, where like I never personally got to meet her, but I know her. You know what I mean? Like I I've seen her through other people's eyes and and the impact she had on people before and after. And, you know, she matters.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Something that is important for us as we continue learning new families and and being able to meet new families is our ability to better support them. And I learned from from you, from you guys, the importance of uh reaching out, like I just I'll say like beyond yourself. So for the advocacy groups that you all have connected with. And I think in my perception, is that is something that your family is doing that we are definitely going to support our families to connect with some of those advocacy groups.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

There are so many good people. I could I could spend the next 40 minutes naming names and of just so many good people we've met along the way who, you know, resources or support, or just, you know, creating a space um where Melissa can talk about it and not feel even just weird, right? Like just even that. Um, it's just so important and so amazing to see uh everything that everybody's doing.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Yeah, so we're really grateful, obviously, to be able to connect with you. Um, Missy sent us specifically to an advocacy group when we were at CrimeCon. We went and talked to them, we got their postcards, we shared all their information.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Well, we signed up for their class, we did.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

And you did? Actually, we did. Yeah, you even said it at the beginning. You said there's no training for this. And I'm like, wait, but there sort of is. We just didn't know about it. You know, we didn't know that you can access these classes and they can teach you how to speak, not better, but be media ready, we'll say. Because nobody expects the media to come and knock on their door and then say, tell us what what's happening and you're experiencing trauma. And having those resources are we're are something we are just so grateful that uh you all you told us about those um resources and we're moving those forward.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

We're we're absolutely grateful for them. We had an opportunity to go to um the first advocacy conference, and it really was unbelievably helpful. Um, and it was it was just it was unreal. It was, it was, it's one, it's it's a group you never really want to become a part of, but being part of the group, there's a lot of wonderful people for sure.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Yeah, I would I took particularly interest. I was looking at some of their their media training, and so you could you kind of just mention that, and I couldn't help but think of, you know, I think about the average story, you know, that you see on television, and I'm like, and they find a person that they've interviewed, and we all think the same thing. This is who they spoke with out of all the people that were standing around. And it made me realize, I'm like, wow, this is really an important skill. And I think it's amazing that they put something like that together. I'm looking forward to going through the class. I just, you know, like I said, we just signed up, got the information in our email, what, yesterday, the day before or something?

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Oh, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

And so we're gonna go through it because we're we're here to learn as well. I mean, you mentioned it um a few minutes ago, Alisa, that when we started this journey, it was just really about one case, and the volume of information that we've learned from all these interviews is insane. And it's actually not only has it changed our approach to these interviews, it has changed our approach to the investigation. It's changed our approach to certain language that's used. Um, and it's it's really put us in a situation where we're starting to understand what where the gap is between the victim advocacy, law enforcement, the investigation, and just what's happening with missing people. And there's chasms of between some of this communication. There's chasms in the investigation. And what we've learned the most, and I think I really took this from Lee Cook. Um, it was a really important lesson to hear from him is a lot of these cases, while the investigators are doing, well, their job, the investigation, most cases are put to the forefront and solved because of the families getting involved and not just waiting around for a process. And frankly, not to kind of paraphrase Lee, a process and structure that's really more for the criminal than the victim. And as sad as that is to say, it's up to us to change that narrative.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

It is so wildly unfortunate that the onus is so heavily put on a family that's grieving. Yes. For things like that, right? Like it should not be that way. Um, you know, it should not be, you know, 35 plus years of questions and and and sadness and and things like that. And it should not be where the family who's already going through so much has now another thing put on them. But that's you know, that's kind of the way it is. That's the reality right there. And that's that is so unfortunate, but it is it is the the way it is. Um, and there's not much you can do about and and like I said, that you know, thank goodness for the people who are out there who've kind of written it down, built the classes, built the you know, our resources that can help. And and and to a degree, that you know, the law enforcement. I I truly believe that generally they want to do good. Um, I think that may just it may or may not be um the truth. It may be something I just tell myself because you know, you see a lot of unfortunate um outcomes, but there's a lot of times where you know things get taken care of.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

So yeah, and you mentioned it earlier too, and I think it's it was really good for you to say it because you know one of the challenges I'll speak for myself. I don't want to speak for Elisa here. So I get so frustrated when I see law enforcement's lack of engagement, lack of investigation, missing steps. But I also have to remind myself, like when we talk about Walcala County, I've I've been pretty hard on Walcala County. I mean, that's my home county. And for good reason, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not gonna be apologetic for it. You know, I think they've deserved everything that I've said. However, on the flip side, I also want to acknowledge, and I have acknowledged, that this is a smaller county. There's less resources, there's less money, there's less time. And the job that they have, because I come from a law enforcement family. I've had multiple members of my family involved in law enforcement. I understand this, the pressure they're under, the constant barrage of cases and the time, you just flat out run out of time. And so some that you you you tend to lean into the ones you can solve, and you know, some of them fall between the cracks. And unfortunately, that the number that fall between the cracks, I think, is much higher than I would like to see.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Abs absolutely. And I mean, it never should be the story you tell the family of well, we just don't have the resources. We don't, you know, there's there's there's always gotta be because the I mean the impact of I mean, I've seen it, uh, the impact that has on the family. Um, you know, the the you know, the do you do you have an overabundance of trust with the law enforcement? Does law enforcement have an overabundance of trust with the family? Like the that that kind of maintaining that relationship just wears on people. It just it just is like a death of a thousand cuts, right? It's just relentless. And again, it's a situation that absolutely no family should ever be in. That should not be the responsibility of a family who's grieving or terrified or scared or maybe doesn't have access to the right resources. It should never be put on them to say, you know, you know, everybody has an opinion, right? So anytime anything, you know, is is spoken or put out, there's always people who are like, well, why the, you know, why didn't this? Why didn't that? You know, that relentless just do you think the family has not asked themselves why a million times, has not second-guessed themselves a million times. Oh yeah. And in a situation where, you know, like it it it just like I said at the beginning, it kind of seeps into the bones and it kind of is a a patina on every aspect of life. And that's that's that that's that's difficult.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Oh yeah. The one the one area too that I I think I'm I'm not willing to apologize for, I think, is you know, we talk about this lack of resources. While so while I do acknowledge that, um, I also have seen time and time again when resources go to law enforcement and then they don't accept the help. And so we we've seen that in our investigations as well, where we've we've actually contacted, you know, people that are associated formally with the FBI, people that have run their own investigation firms, geographic profilers, statement analysts, and we've actually gone to law enforcement and say, here's free help. And they're like, no, thank you. And that bothers me. Even like we don't do this for money. We're doing this for free.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

And we do this in our spare time, what little bit we have, and we do as much as we can. I mean, with me, I'm a tech nerd, so I leverage AI for tons of this investigation, and I'm constantly building reports, I'm constantly looking through data and looking for gaps in the investigation. And then we here's here's the crazy part. We have a tip line, and people will call in and give us a tip. And when there's even one that it was a pretty amazing tip we got fairly recently about one of our cases. We called the sheriff's office, they said, Great, we'll let you know what we find. Crickets. We haven't heard anything. And we've even had one of these investigators say, You should stop talking about our case because we're getting too many tips that are not legitimate. And of course, my first question is, how do you know they're not legitimate? How do you know that?

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Yeah, yeah. Like have you have you followed them up? That's right. Yeah. It's such it's such a I'll get off my soapbox now. Well, I mean, it's it's it is, you know, mileage may vary, but it is uh like I said, you know, I I I five years later and I kind of my adult life grew up with with I I I say I grew up with uh with Missy, right? But you can see the toll that that it takes and just the the it's there's exhaustion and there's sadness and and and uh you know I I have to say it like I said again, she's the she's the strongest human I know and and um just uh handles it with such grace that it it it's I'm amazed every day. But don't tell her I said that. Whoops. She she might she might hear this.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Oh pretty sure she's heard it. Well then let's flip the script a little bit and what keeps you hopeful when you're thinking about Deanna?

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Hope is a is kind of a a a funny thing, right? Um kind of hope for the for answers, hope for bringing her home. Um from me personally, um, you know, I I I I hate to be that guy again, but um, you know, Melissa is 110%. Missy's 110%. And it's it's kind of nice to see somebody care that much, um, and people who care that much so because sometimes, you know, like you kind of hear it third hand or you hear about something and you're like, what you know, like I said, that that she was a person and she mattered, and we the hope is to bring her home and and the hope is to kind of be able to heal. Right. Um And so the activity, the the outreach, the uh action of doing things is kind of in and of itself uh at least from my perspective, um, it's it's it's a kind of a a beautiful effort in a a horrible situation. Um and so it's it's amazing to see her continue to push, continue to drive and get people involved and and the family and how they you know they're her sisters, how they they deal with it, right? Because there's there is um you know definitely an impact on their life. So uh I don't know if that necessarily is is keeping me personally hopeful, but uh it is it is kind of a an amazing thing to see um and challenging, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:07

This kind of makes me think about the conversation we had with Nick, Gaylord and Grief, and he's another incredible person that we've met along the way, and we recognize and acknowledge that anyone that we're speaking to is is grieving, whether it's a missing child or an unsolved homicide. And we came across Nick and we had a really great conversation with him, and we're doing everything we can do to support and maybe fill some of those gaps, Michael, that you were that you were talking about. And with that, you know, I have um inserted myself in several uh social media sites in the Kaleen area, and it's our intention that um this series is heard by lots and lots of people um in the local area. So, what would you say to someone who may have information but has never come forward?

SPEAKER_00 46:03

If somebody has information, our goal and in the family's goal, Missy's goal, is not not to be punitive. She just wants to bring her sister home. She just wants to know. She wants to find her sister, bring her home. Whatever that outcome is, she wants to bring her sister home. So don't feel like you can't say something, you know, or um, you know, just uh just if you know something, just just tell tell her. Tell us. Um share, share it with the police, share it with, you know, there's there's so many different um different avenues, and it it's it's bringing it in in in everybody's mind, she's still a child, right? Because that's you know, she when she went missing, she she was a child. And I don't think anybody would want their child to not be with them. And so if you share any information, you're in effect bringing a child home. So please don't hesitate to do that.

SPEAKER_02 47:23

You've been listening to Tragedy, a true crime podcast. Our purpose is to honor victims by sharing their stories through the voices of friends, family, and those whose lives were forever changed. If today's episode resonated with you, we encourage you to subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast so these important stories continue to be heard. Together, we can preserve their memories and ensure their voices are never forgotten. If you have ideas for cases we should cover or questions about what you heard, you can connect with us through our Facebook group, Tragedy a True Crime Podcast, on X at Tragedy Podcast, by email at Tragedy a True Crime Podcast at gmail.com, or by visiting our website www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com. Thank you for listening, and we hope you'll join us next time.