SPEAKER_04 0:00

In Tragedy, a true crime podcast, we discuss missing persons' cases, violent crime, and other sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Our show is a place where every story matters and every voice deserves to be heard. To support this podcast, you can subscribe at www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com for early access to new episodes. And join our Facebook community, Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast, for updates, discussions, and ways to support the families we feature. Welcome to Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast. I'm Elisa.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

And I'm Michael.

SPEAKER_04 0:48

As we sit down to record this episode, it's hard to believe that one year ago, Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast began with a simple but deeply personal mission to create a space where victims are remembered, families are heard, and stories that too often fade from public attention continue to matter. Over the last year, we've had the privilege of sitting with families carrying unimaginable grief, unanswered questions, and the weight of learning how to move forward while still searching for answers. We've heard memories that made us smile, heartbreak that stayed with us long after recording ended, and a kind of resilience that continues to inspire us. For this special one-year anniversary episode, we wanted to do something different. We wanted to return to some of the voices who trusted us enough to share their stories in the beginning. Today, we're welcoming back three families we've had the honor of getting to know over this past year, not just to revisit the cases, but to talk about something equally important, what life looks like now. Because behind every case file, every timeline, and every unanswered question are people living through the reality of what comes after. To the families joining us again, thank you. Thank you for trusting us with your stories, for allowing us back into your lives, and for continuing to advocate for your loved ones. And to our listeners, whether you've been here since episode one or you're just joining us, thank you for helping ensure these stories continue to be heard. And now we'll welcome back Teresa Rogers, Ian's mom, Tabitha Kutkay, Michael John Olson's niece, and Michelle McCroy, Cody Haney's mom. This is our one-year anniversary episode of Tragedy, a true crime podcast, and the conversation continues. We'd like to welcome Teresa Rogers back to the show. Hi, Teresa. Thanks for being with us today.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Hi, y'all. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 2:54

We are good, and we are so glad to have you back on the show. And it's been a little while, and we know that there have been some pretty significant things that have happened in your home in our hometown in our search to uncover and find Ian. And so the biggest thing is that the truck, his work truck was located, and that was in November of 2025. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience and how you found out and just how that time was for you?

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Um sure. It was um, I'm trying to think how I found out. I know I spoke with um Detective Del Beato. Um, I had called him. Um of course he was out in the field, you know, with the truck, um, and then he called me back and had told me they'd been out there since like midnight the night before. Um, but they really hadn't found anything. They'd looked, you know, all around the truck and um, but they hadn't, you know, that didn't seem appear to be anything. Ian wasn't there. Um and um I was happy and I was sad. It was very strange to have that at the same time. I was happy they found the truck and I was sad that Ian wasn't there, but then I was happy Ian wasn't there, you know what I mean? So um yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:15

Yeah, and um we do know that they did a couple of days of searching um in a pretty big grid area from what we could tell. And the sheriff's office did bring in some um outside resources that are sp specifically trained in searching. Um and I, you know, I'm hoping they kept you updated on that. And were they, did they tell you anything about those searches or anything they found in the truck or anything like that?

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Um, no, actually, they they said they didn't find anything in the truck. Um, no keys, no wallet, you know, nothing, no, not anything, no sunglasses. Um, the windows were down on the truck, which was interesting, and we know it was stuck in the mud. Um and having I had gone and gotten his things that were in the back of the truck out of the truck um later. And, you know, the gentleman that I spoke with said that the whole inside was, you know, all mildew and and everything because it'd been there for well, uh approximately a year, and um, you know, the windows had been down and the rain and everything. Um so no, they they didn't say anything specific about the the searches that they did. Um, there wasn't any, you know, there was no sign of Ian apparently. Um they didn't find him or his phone. Um they had especially trained dog, I think, out there that searches for phones, which I thought was amazing, and horses as well that went out on the search. Um, they went out twice and after that they they called it off. They um figured, you know, he if they hadn't found, you know, anything as far as they went, then they probably weren't going to.

SPEAKER_04 5:54

I think it is important to kind of help our listeners understand what that area looks like. So this isn't Florida like Miami, Florida, where it's whole, you know, it is very thick, um, very treed. There's all these like suffice it to say, this isn't an area unless you're walking on a dedicated road or a path. You're not just gonna tromp around in there, particularly in August. There are snakes and all kinds of scary things out there, and it's not easy to get through.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

And one thing that was really compelling to me is when you look at the map of this area, and we talk about this a little bit in previous episodes, but just as a reminder for our listeners, is where the truck was, and you could you would hit a trail or road in any direction. So even if Ian had gotten out of the truck and didn't really know where to go, any direction he would have chosen would have led him to a road or trail that would have led him to civilization. This is not in the I know the police department originally reported this as this truck was in the middle of nowhere. And that is false. This truck is not in the middle of nowhere. The truck was found 0.23 miles, I think is what I said if I double check my math. But the point is, is off of Old Planck Road, and even if you took the longest possible route to the next trail, which was not a very good conducive area to walk, especially in August, it was less than a mile to the next road. Again, just as a reminder, the most you know one of the most compelling things for me is 0.83 miles, 1.83 miles, the truck was found from the phone ping that we've had on record since basically the very beginning.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

I guess I originally was like, oh my gosh, they only search for two days, they should search for more. But when I think about then, this is just my own personal opinion. The terrain, I I can understand how it's not going to be likely for someone to what whatever their vehicle gets stuck, then not just to stay on this kind of road that the truck was found on. It's unlikely that you would tromp in the other direction. It's just it's scratchy. You're there's just so many, it's just not away, it's very thick, particularly in August. Yeah, and in the stay on the road. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Exactly. I mean, and the one the the one thing about that area that I I'm not aware if it's been investigated or not. No, we've made several recommendations and several inquiries, but there are two sinkholes that are within reasonable distance of where the truck was found. And as far as I know, those have still not been searched. They're small, correct, but I have the impression looking at the maps that at least one of them seems to be relatively deep. And so I'm super interested in eventually having someone search those areas. I know we've reached out, but we haven't had a whole lot of luck yet in getting that done.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

I've re um there was a gentleman that um contacted me actually. Um he he has a dive recovery um, not a I guess a business, but it's a nonprofit. Um he actually, they were down, I believe, toward Miami and just recently located someone in the Intercoastal Waterway who had been there for 20 years. Um he um had you know volunteered and said he would, you know, come they would come out and have a look. Um, but he's just been extremely busy and hasn't had a chance. And then there was another one um that I got in touch with who has a YouTube channel. Um he also goes out and explores and finds cars and you know, those kind of people. And um I received an email back from them and they actually said that they, you know, they were busy right now, they were up in Tennessee, but that they would be willing to come down and and um they have a sonar that they put in the water, you know, under, you know, not somebody who specifically dives, um, unless it's necessary. And um they he he said that they would, you know, they would come down and um and have a look. So hopefully, you know, they'll I I did recently emailed them back again and hopefully I'll be hearing from them and somebody will come out and you know and have a look.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Do you have their names?

SPEAKER_02 10:02

I do. It's um explore the nug, N U G. I didn't know if I should put that out there.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

No, it's fine. I mean, the reason I'm asking is because we're, you know, obviously we've been in touch with two other dive groups. And um, if these guys don't really have the time, we have other dive groups that we're already in communication with.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Well, these guys he um actually did he contact me or I think he contacted me or brief or I may just briefly have contacted him, and then he wrote me back and said, tell me about everything, and then wrote me back after you know, when I wrote back back to him. Um I think they were involved, there was some a couple a missing couple up in Tennessee, and I think they were involved in finding those folks just recently. So um, like I said, I've written him back, but I haven't heard back yet. But it seems promising.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Good.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

When we first met you and we started speaking with you about Ian and his disappearance, it really felt like there hadn't been any media coverage really at all about his disappearance. And so we'd like for you to give our listeners an update on how that has changed since we first covered Ian's story.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Okay. Yeah, um there really wasn't any coverage at first. And then um, after I talked to y'all, I um I spoke with um Serena Devanzo at the local TV station, WTXL, and um she had Ian's story on. And then um after that I spoke with um Ava Um Van Valen at the local um uh WCTV. Um then I spoke with um Frank Gibson, he has a a YouTube channel out in in England, and I spoke with him, and um I spoke with um another some other folks. They disappeared, those folks, um, on their their YouTube, or I'm sorry, on their podcast. Um so there was, and then I spoke with y'all again, of course. And so there was a lot, a lot of coverage. Ava um did an um about a 15-20 minute story, extra story, um, different from the news on Ian's disappearance. So there's there was a lot, there was a lot more after I spoke with you that it it really got out um, you know, into the public. People were talking about it and knew about it and um really good.

SPEAKER_04 12:27

Yeah, and then of course, when his truck was found, that I mean, that was all over the news. We ended up at going to people.com. And one thing I think has been really interesting, you know, I follow quite a few of the local Facebook pages, and I I know that people know about Ian now, which was really one of our biggest pushes, something we really wanted to do for you. And the reason I know people know about him is because just a couple of weeks ago, like literally, I think two weeks ago, maybe even less, there was a report about um someone's human remains, unidentified human remains that were found in the Tallahassee area. And several people were like, is this Ian? Maybe this is Ian. Oh my gosh, what if this is Ian? And, you know, people know about him. People are are are wanting him to be found. And I don't think that's, you know, that's not where it was in the beginning. And so we're just so grateful that you were willing to come and speak with us and that we were able to to make this make his name a name that people now know and and they're watching out for.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

And you did. Um, I don't think that any of the publicity, not publicity or any of the any of the anything, the web page or you know, on on the color page, you know, that there's um being in people.com, I mean, uh none of that would have, I don't believe, would have happened if it hadn't been for y'all um doing what you do.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

So yeah, we're a partnership, right? You're welcome. It it's us, it's us offering and you taking the taking the opportunity and building this relationship with us. So we are also um thankful that you are walking this path with us.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Well, I think we're like family now.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

I would agree with that, yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

All right, so Teresa, I also had the impression that, you know, before we s really got started in this, that one of the things you told us about was just the sheer lack of law enforcement involvement, communication, anything. You even had trouble even understanding which detective was on the case, which we found shocking. And so we started publishing the podcast, we started, you know, obviously pushing a lot out through Facebook, and then we were also between us and you contacting law enforcement. And it's my understanding, even though he's not necessarily happy with us, which honestly I don't care. What I care about is he's talking to you, and it's and that's true, correct? And that's still continuing to be true. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Um, well, yeah, they they weren't talking to me. I had no no idea. And then like you said, yeah, they did, you know, they did start talking and calling and let me know, you know, the things that, you know, they were doing. Um, fortunately, it seems like they've gone, you know, back to, you know, no uh uh no contact, you know, unless there's nothing, apparently there's nothing to be, you know, to be told.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

So well, yeah, let me I'll comment on that because I I come from a customer service background when I think about how I I've managed my IT work, and what I always tell people is no status is still a status. And so if they're not talking to you, I would say it's time to start making some phone calls again. Um we just got finished interviewing a guy named Lee Cook um with uh a new case that we're looking at that's really more about victim advocacy advocacy. Um his his daughter was murdered, and the person who did it is actually in prison at this point, so it's a slightly different type of case. But he really has a phenomenal message and something that I think a lot of people need to think about. And this is actually one of the things I wanted to talk to you today, is he said that if he had not done and his family had not done everything that they had done, it's very likely that this person would already have been out on the street again. And so he talked about problems of victim advocacy, he probably talked about problems with the parole process in general, um, the communication around it, and in general, that you know, the legal system is really tuned for the criminal and not for the victims and the victims' families. And so what I'm gonna tell you is you've got to go in, you've got to start, you've got to be the annoying person. Um, we're trying to be as annoying as possible. I'm sure, even when we picked up the Latanya case, they were like, damn it, these these bitches again. I'm sure that's what they were thinking. Oh, yeah. And so, with that being said, um, I want to really push that issue. And so if they're already not talking to you again, it's time to start getting on the phone. It's even time to start walking in the office. That's how we got our appointment with them. They would not return our call. And so finally, me and Elise are like, you know, hell with it. We're just gonna go in. We went in, we knocked on the door and said, we want to talk to the damn sheriff. And within five minutes, somebody was in that lobby. Now, granted, they didn't let's talk to the sheriff, not surprisingly.

SPEAKER_04 17:10

We never did.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

We never did. But not only did they talk to us that day, but they scheduled a meeting with us in which we talked about the Ian Rogers and the Jody Kilgore case and where they were with it, what was going on, our role, how we could help. And do I necessarily think necessarily think we got a ton out of it? No, except for they realized two things. One, they realized one, we're not going away. And two, they started talking to you more after that day. And so I I'm just gonna encourage you if they've if they've if they've gone dark again, it's time to start walking in the office.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Yeah. And that's something I have not done. I have not walked in the office. I'm I need to put my big girl pants on.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Get the big girl pants on and let's go in the office.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

And uh I think in a sense that now we are more credible to them.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

I actually got um we got some information related to a a case in Walcala, not Ian's a different one. And I I called the um our contact over at the sheriff's office, and uh they answered the phone when I called. And I said, I have this information. And the person said, You whatever you have, I'm always willing to hear it. And I think part of that is because we have persisted and we physically walked in the door.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

And y'all are asking the right questions too. Yes, you know, and you're not being like publicity hounds either.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

Right. Right. And that is definitely one of the most important things in our journey. And the more families that we come in contact with and support, um, the more we hear how grateful they are that we're giving them like unfettered isn't the right word, but an open mic essentially, to to speak about their experience and their loved one. And and it's not like the media who may come and do a 30, you know, I don't know, they talk to you for a couple hours and then it's it's five minutes and you're like, where's all the other stuff? So we feel like we're filling a gap.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

And let's don't forget that the Ian Rogers case could possibly take back seat to the shoe bandit, evidently, in Walcala County, which I still find hilarious.

SPEAKER_04 19:29

The shoe bandit.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Well, shoes are very important, you know, to a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 19:34

Or the worm grunting festival, which also got a lot more media.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

So well, you know, shoes and worms, Walcala County here in Walcala County. Also fair.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Is there anything that you wanted to add to the conversation that we didn't specifically ask you about?

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Um, it seems that in in seeing other, you know, other cases where either people have been, you know, killed or missing, that if the person has um a vice or you know happens to be addicted to a drug or alcohol or something, that if they had those things, they don't seem as important to law enforcement. They're kind of put on the maybe a second shelf, a second tier. Because they have those vices, it it they don't mean as much. And um you know, sometimes that's kinda how I feel. I feel like, you know, Ian had these issues and um you know, maybe that's why he's you know, they're not he's not as important as you know, as somebody who was missing and and didn't have those vices or you know, an addiction or something like that. So um that really um yeah, that's that's something that I've been thinking about.

SPEAKER_04 20:57

Hi Tabitha, thanks for being with us tonight. We're so grateful that you're here to bring us up to speed on what has been happening in the search for your uncle, Michael John Olsen. So thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. So since we last spoke, what are some of the most important updates in the case?

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Um, I think there's a few. We've we have a new um a couple of new people on board that Paige has been working with who've kind of been helping behind the scenes. Um and I I think you know some more information like about what exactly they've been doing, but they've been reaching out to me and I've been relaying questions back to my dad just about um like Mike if he's had any scars or any surgeries, his dental records um to be able to use that.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

Yes, it's uh my understanding that this is a team of people who work to identify human remains that are located. So they m keep like a database. Um, when the media puts out that um there are human remains that have been found that are not identified, and then reach out to, you know, anyone in the area who has reported somebody missing, obviously, even going back as far as when Michael went missing. And I think that's why they are asking uh to add to their database maybe um a picture, scars, um, those kinds of things, so that in their search, maybe they can um match people. That's what they're really doing, are matching um remains that are not identified to people who are missing and that kind of thing. So that is a good partner to have. And I know just in the past couple of weeks, they've been really active with asking questions and and doing that work. So that's that is a good update to have, yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Very grateful for everybody and especially new people coming on. So um also we have sent an email out to Jim, who was the last person with Mike that night um that he disappeared. And he's kind of been somebody we haven't really reached out to. We've talked to um most, if not all of the other guys and supervisors at the golf club, golf club. We specifically, my sister and I have not reached out to Jim personally, um, asking for, you know, what he remembers from that night and some other things. And so we have reached out to him. Um, we haven't heard back yet, but we're hopeful and excited for what he has to say about his memory.

SPEAKER_04 23:33

And that's also just been within the last couple of weeks. I know we reached out like we did with everybody, right, to see who wanted to come forward and speak. And we um also did not hear back. And so I think it's important that um the family, meaning you all, are reaching out because you know, we're who are we? We're podcasting. He doesn't know us, um, but he does obviously um everybody who was there is is you know very clear on um family members and their role in this. So we hope that that is positive. And um, you know, anything that you can share with us moving forward on that, I think is good because you're right. Like he is reportedly the last person to see Michael John Olson. And so he's definitely going to have a perspective that um nobody else has.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Right. Yeah. And I think the last like major thing that we've been focusing on since our original podcast with you guys was um Mike's speeding ticket that he got in Fort Lauderdale and kind of focusing on that, um, who he was with, what this what the ticket was, like when he was there, and all the details kind of surrounding that um has been very interesting. And you, I know you have dug really deep into that and tried to get more information, which has been hard.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Yes, I did. I uh FOIAed um Fort Lauderdale, and then that she told me that I needed to send it to somebody else. And anyway, the result, what I was trying to get was the actual ticket, because the ticket, right? The citation number you all provided to me through some of the information that you shared with us. But I wanted to actually see the ticket and maybe get some dates and times and clarity because there's a little bit of um uncertainty as to what the ticket was written for, as well as reportedly there was someone with him when he received that ticket. And we are we have spent some time trying to locate um that person. And the the name, the last name kind of varies throughout the information that we did receive from West Palm. Um, so I did like a little variation of the name, and and we thought we I share it with you guys always. And Paige is great. He just called this person up just out of the blue and explained who he was. And and she said, um, yeah, I really heard I heard it was really interesting that that Mike died. And so I think Paige had this like moment, like his heart skipped, but when they talk to her further, not even related, not not our Michael, but completely just one of those weird, random, odd things that happened. Um, so yeah, we are still trying to work on figuring out if there was a person there. Um, because you know, these are people's recollections from when uh the police were doing their initial report and if the name is off in any way, but we're still working on that. Um, what is it? No stone left unturned. That is correct. Is that how it goes? Yeah. So definitely um that is something that we are continuing to work on as well. Um, and I believe also there's been some communication with you all with the team, the law enforcement team down in West Palm about uh property.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Uh yeah, I can't. That was probably the biggest thing. So I've um been in email contact with the detective who's on Michael's case. And um Yeah, she's been great. Usually she responds within a day or two to my emails, which has been great because you don't always get that with a PD. Um, so I've been very thankful for that. She has been working on trying to get a search warrant for a property down in Florida. Um, and it she hasn't been able to get it. And I don't she can't give me really too in too much information. I keep trying to ask her, like, what can I give you? What can I help you with? And I I don't know the process, but I'm hopeful that she will be able to get that search warrant. And that is kind of another lead that we can go with.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

Yeah, and this is a continuation of something that we know had already happened with this same property. It is in the documentation that we received from law enforcement that there was a conversation about getting a search warrant for this property several years ago. And the uh state attorney's office declined um issuing that. And that doesn't mean that we're gonna stop, right? We're gonna keep in contact. And, you know, maybe they just need one more something or, you know, one more piece of information to be able to go ahead and and take a closer look at that property, which could be which is plausibly connected to what did or did not happen that night.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

I'm gonna ask a dumb question. Has anyone just contacted Jim and asked permission to search the property?

SPEAKER_01 28:18

No, I I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

It might be a good thing to consider because you know, we don't know if Jim's involved or not. I mean, as we just know he's the last person that's seen Michael John Olson. I'd be interested to know if if he would, you know, in the in the in the scope of trying to help find what happened to him or at least eliminate possibilities, you know, sometimes just asking permission is someone who's innocent and not involved in something, just they'll just provide that. And at this point, we have no evidence that he's involved. So it may be worth asking the question. Um, and you know, it it to me it's kind of telling too if he says sure, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Yeah. I did actually, I asked both detectives, uh, the first detective that was working on Michael's case and this current one. Um, I asked both of them if they would be willing to ask him themselves if they could search it, because like, okay, if you can't get the search warrant, could you reach out to him and just ask permission? And then if he gave permission, you don't need a search warrant, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:13

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Um, neither detective has like wrote back regarding that, like, yes, I'm willing to ask, or no, I'm not, or yes, I tried, you know. So I have given them his information and asked them to do that.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Right, that's good.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

Because we we do believe that that property is still owned by the same family.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Yeah, we've been given no information. It's not, and any kind of checks that we've done from a legal perspective still indicates the property ownership still within that family. Normally, yes, and it's just one of those things we don't know that anything happened there. We don't even have any proof that Michael John Olson went there. But it's just one of those questionable spots. It'd be nice to eliminate it, just like you were just like we're eliminating dive locations.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

That's right. And all the lakes and those kinds of things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Which um the talk of the water and the lakes brings me to another thing. I have also been in contact with the detective regarding different lakes and ones that ponds or waterways that are searchable and not searchable, and some of them are not searchable for whatever reason. Um they need like Sunshine State sonar, who's been so helpful for us, needs police to okay them to search these. Anyway, so I've been in contact with the detective, and they have pointed me to directors of the city to try to help um get the okay or get the clearance of these. Like they should already be cleared because they're used for drinking water. And so I've asked, I've sent emails like asking for them to give me that information that these waterways have been cleared. If they're not allowed to be searched, then I I would think that they search them to make sure they're safe because they're used for drinking water. So I just want that documentation. And I'm the city has not sent me emails back with any information regarding that.

SPEAKER_04 31:07

So yeah, and I know you we keep talking about clearing a lake, and and the lake in question is Clear Lake, that's the name of the lake, which is quite huge. I was surprised because you know, we went down there and um took a look at several of the sites um that are potentially associated with whatever it is that happened that night in Clear Lake. There's a road that splits right through the middle of it. So there does seem to be some confusion as to if that lake has been completely searched or if there needs to be some sort of permissions because it's they don't just want people going in there because it's drinking water. But I hear your point. Like, shouldn't you already make sure there's no cars in the lake that people are drinking water from?

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Yeah, you would think they you wouldn't want a car in the lake that's got gasoline in it, oils and all kinds of other stuff, I would assume. But the point being is it would be nice to know what their inspection schedule is and what is involved in that inspection. And because that would tell a lot. I mean, if they go through and they regularly sonar the lake and look for any discrepancies or any potential sources for contaminants, it'd be nice to at least know that's part of their procedure. But with that them being quiet about this and not providing information, it's not allowing us to eliminate it from the list.

SPEAKER_04 32:20

There we go. Another eliminate from the list.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Yeah, and that's been exactly what it is. Like I'm like, I'm sure you in my email I said, I'm sure you check it often yearly. I don't even know. But I just want the information of how you check it, when you check it, that sort of details. And it's been crickets, you know, they don't even respond.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yeah, and the other thing too to consider is I I I just can't, when you're saying that, I can't help but remember um Bill McIntosh's interview with Adventures with Purpose. He talked about a number of locations in various cases where he would go over a spot and it took going over it at a particular angle um before he really recognized what he was looking at. Plus, he also said that, you know, it takes a bit of practice to where, you know, he looks for cars so often that what, you know, someone who doesn't do that all the time, they may see something that seems very nondescript, and he will look at it and go, That's a car. And and I've even seen it because I've followed a number of their YouTube videos. I've actually found some a lot of their content they put out there is pretty uh fascinating on the what their process looks like. And it is amazing how often that he'll first, hey, I think that's something, and they'll scan it one way, another way, and then finally he hits it at the right angle and go, That's a damn car. And that's what you know prompts them to dive. And so it's one of those things that I also question, even if they're scanning it, do they none do they understand what they're looking for versus a group of professionals like Sunshine State Sonar and Adventures of Purpose that do this for a living and know exactly what they're looking at when they see it.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

Right. Yeah, that's a good point. So it's almost like the coordination of the lead detective with the city to make sure that whoever is looking or scanning knows exactly what we're looking for and not just doing a cursory scan. I hear what you're saying. It's like they these people are subject matter experts and they know what to look for versus someone who's just you know like doing the whatever two, three-year scan that they're doing. So that's a that's a good point. Is there anything else that's happened since we've last spoken with you that we haven't had a chance to ask you about?

SPEAKER_01 34:27

I don't know. It's been a while since we last spoke. There's, you know, there's little things here and there. I think sometimes we'll go days, weeks without anybody on our team, you know, talking, and then all of a sudden somebody thinks of something and we kind of go back and forth. And I think Megan and I especially and Paige, like we all really appreciate that. Like everybody knew who's come on throughout anything, these podcasts, or you know, even if it's a viewer who's listening to something and is like, hey, have you guys thought about this and stuff? I think that's always great and helpful and kind of keeps us moving and thinking.

SPEAKER_04 35:04

Yeah, because you just never know what kind of, I don't know, maybe feels like a nondescript conversation that then something just comes out of it's like, whoa, this is a with new way of looking at something or something that we hadn't thought about that that could make a difference. And I'm encouraged by the amount of um communication that you're uh continuing to get from uh local law enforcement because that's that's really one of the big things for us, right? Is making sure that you're in communication with them, making sure that we are giving you a platform um to talk about Michael John Olson and and so that he is not forgotten and then you know making those connections as we have more listeners come and more people join the team.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Yeah, we really appreciate it. I know my dad and my aunt especially really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

One thing that I've been really happy with, it's been kind of an interesting um dynamic or maybe just artifact of what we're trying to do by creating this platform is in almost every situation, we are told the same story where it comes to law enforcement isn't communicating. And then after we we meet with all these different subject matter experts, they've indicated to us that the only way to get them to communicate um is you've got to be you've got to be the person, the squeaky wheel that will not go away. You've got to apply pressure. So the other, you know, kind of evidence that this is working, even though we have heard from people going, it's hard to sometimes listen to your stories because they don't resolve. And I'm like, yeah, they don't resolve because that's not the purpose. What we're trying to do, well, I can't say it's not the purpose, I would love for them to get resolved. But, you know, the idea is to take any little bit of you know details and try to push it forward and put that pressure that these subject matter experts tell us to do onto these agencies um for these cases. And what I will say, almost consistently, every case that we cover, if we haven't accomplished anything, law enforcement communication has improved. And so if anything, that is a big win in all of these cases, especially this one.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah. I th I agree. I think you guys have pushed me and helped me and Megan, my sister, to um to reach out to law enforcement and like what questions do we ask? Because I've kind of been on the like, I don't want to bother them. I feel like they're so busy, but like also it's you know, it's my uncle and we want to find him and we want answers. And so I think pushing and asking and sending emails with specific questions that I want answered is important, and I found that she is responding to me. So that's also really good.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Yeah, I think it's a great one.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

Thank you for the updates. Yeah, thank you. And the last thing that we wanted to um give you an opportunity to speak about is a tape that you sent us, and we well, Michael did some work on it and we sent it back to you. So tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Yeah, so uh it was so great. So we got the tape back from Michael and he worked so hard to um to try to get something off of this tape. Um, so this tape was found. I should go back. This tape was found in a box of Mike's things that was at my grandparents' house. Um and when my grandparents passed away, this box of Michael's things, um, just my aunt has had it, and we got it. Um, so we found this tape. We're like, what's on this? Trying to find a tape player is tricky. Um so we sent it to you guys. You were able to clean it up and get it back to us, and it was actually what we believe is um Mike as a little boy reading a book. Um, and so the it was sent back to me, and I was able to actually play it for my dad. I believe it was Thanksgiving when he came over for Thanksgiving. I played it for my dad, and he had tears, you know, being able to listen to Mike's voice, um, even if it was when he was a kid, and he's like, that's definitely Mike reading a book. And like it brought him so much joy. Um, and it really brings me so much joy. So we're holding that safe, really safe, keeping that. Um, because that is, I think, the only thing we have of Mike and his voice talking.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Well, that's amazing. Because I mean when I first started going through it, it was as I got closer and closer to a real voice, I had the realization of like, well, there's no evidentiary value here. But then the more I listened, I was like, this is gonna have a lot of sentimental value. So I spent quite a bit of time. I wish I could have gotten it cleaner. I would need better equipment than I have. I still think there's enough there to where if you ever send it in to someone who specializes in that, they might be able to tune it better than I did. I mean, I I only know a little bit about that. I don't know a ton, but I I'm glad I was able to get it to a point to where it was it still means something to someone.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Mm-hmm. Yeah, very special to have. So it's locked away in my safe now. And it's in a good place.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

Yeah, I remember you were listening to it and you were like, what do you think this isn't uh I was a reading teacher for, I don't know, so many years. And I'm like, this is someone reading. This is someone who is kind of just learning to read. Because I could tell by the pattern and sort of, you know, the hesitation. I'm like, this is like sounds like a little boy who's reading. And that's when we were like, wait a second. Because the tape did have his name on it, right? It said that's why we were like, what is this about? So we're just really grateful that you were trusted that the the post-it system to get that to us. That's right. And um get it back to you guys. So um, thank you for that.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

My favorite part of the pet tape is it did make me laugh a little bit. Um, my favorite part was you can tell as a child exactly when he got bored and decided to go watch TV. Yeah, because then it just it stopped reading, and I can tell he's got the tape recorder by what I can only say is a game show for commercial, yeah, something like that. And so it's like oh okay, he lost interest. He wandered, he wandered off.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

I think also you could tell, like a little kid, he had the microphone right up to his lips.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

You could tell. Like when you when a kid holds a microphone, you know, they think they need it hitting their lips when they're acting. That's exactly what it sounded like. Um, but you could make out words here and there that he said or you know, a few little sentences. Um, and yeah, so of all the things that could have been on the tape, honestly, I think that was the best thing that we could have found.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

So I'm glad we were able to get to that point.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:25

Hey Michelle, welcome back to the show. We're so glad to have you here. We're excited to hear about some updates and things that have changed. So thanks for being here. Oh, it's great to be back on. So since we last spoke, what updates, big or small, have stood out to you most in Cody's case?

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Um, well, the newest thing that we have been able to you know to learn is that Cody's driver's license was found. So that's probably our newest update so far. Um, what can you tell us about that? Um the ID was found at a pond. Uh but uh there's a significant difference in the miles, it's probably about 50 to 60 miles north of where Cody was last seen.

SPEAKER_04 42:16

And what was the time frame from when he disappeared to when the driver's license was found? It's been about a year and a half. And was there anything else like a wallet or a phone or just the driver's license?

SPEAKER_03 42:31

Just the driver's license. Fascinating.

SPEAKER_04 42:34

Um, have you been in contact with law enforcement about this the driver's license?

SPEAKER_03 42:40

Uh yes, ma'am. Um me and the detective from FDLE, we speak quite often. Um, he's been keeping me updated with what they're doing with the license and how they're handling um, you know, how they're handling the license. But yeah, me and FDLE have been in keeping in contact with each other pretty regularly.

SPEAKER_04 43:01

And that feels like a change from the last time we've spoken with you. It seems like from what I recall, you had a good relationship um with Liberty County Sheriff's Office, but I don't recall you really ever speaking about consistent communication with FDLE.

SPEAKER_03 43:15

Right. Um, at that time, me and um FDLE, we weren't really talking. I was mostly in communication with Liberty County. But then I got a call from the detective from FDLE, and you know, he me and him talked, and he said that he would like to stay in contact with me more often. And I said, no, hey, that's fine. I am I'm good with that. I'm glad to get that call. Um We have been speaking pretty pretty regularly.

SPEAKER_04 43:42

And we should clarify for our listeners, FDLE is the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. And it's my understanding that one of their functions is to come in and support some of the more rural counties with some resources and whatever they need when they're, you know, working on investigation. So that's good. That that's a good update. Uh are there specific details or questions that you have or that you feel are still not getting enough attention?

SPEAKER_03 44:11

I still feel like we should be searching more. I still feel like we should be doing more on the ground searches. Um I know a significant amount of time has gone by. It's been almost two years now. But I do feel like we should be searching more on the ground in different areas instead of just the one location that that they have searched. Because there hasn't been another um on foot search in about a year and a half, probably.

SPEAKER_04 44:40

And I think you're speaking specifically about the last place that he was seen. Um that was reported.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

Yes, ma'am. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 44:49

Are you aware if they've done any searches or anything in the area where the driver's license was located?

SPEAKER_03 44:57

Um, I was informed that they took the canine dogs out there and the cadaver dogs and they searched the area and they didn't find anything.

SPEAKER_04 45:08

So there was some due diligence there, because this is kind of a big find. It sort of reminds me of when uh Ian Rogers' truck was found, um, and then all the searching that they did around there. Because this this is a big deal. The wallet, the phone, one of his phones, driver's license, all those things. And we were led to believe that I thought all of those things were like, I remember folded up neatly in the truck. So could talk to us about what you're where the wallet is or what you know about that.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

Um at this point, I don't think anybody knows where the wallet is at. Uh when I contacted Liberty County, they said that they have turned it over to FDLE. Um, when I spoke with the detective at FDLE, he said that they don't have the phone that Cody had, the iPhone 10. They don't have that or the wallet. So I'm a little curious there of where it went.

SPEAKER_04 46:02

There seems to be a contradiction there, right? So someone should have it. We had the opportunity to meet with some of our external partners several weeks ago uh with the Iris Foundation, and they were telling us about um, it's called the Replevan Law. And what this law does is it allows family members close to cases like this to formally and officially request um their loved ones' personal belongings returned to them, assuming that they're no longer needed for the investigation. So I know that uh that is something that you are going to go ahead and formally request. And I'd be curious if the formal request gets a different response than maybe more of an informal request. Because I feel like, you know, if they don't need that wallet, then you should be getting his personal effects back. So we're curious to see what happens with that.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Well the challenge here too is um it's you know, at this point we have two different agencies that says they don't have it.

SPEAKER_04 46:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Which makes no sense because we know that it was picked up as part of the investigation.

SPEAKER_04 47:02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 47:03

Correct. Yeah, which is why Michelle and I have discussed sending that formal request to both FDLE and Liberty County.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

Now you'll force them to actually look in the bins and see what they have instead of giving you an answer that they just haven't confirmed.

SPEAKER_04 47:18

Exactly. Right. Yes, exactly. Are there other updates that have happened as far as maybe some support from the community or um anything like that outside of the driver's license that has happened since we started speaking with you and bringing Cody's case to the forefront?

SPEAKER_03 47:36

Um unfortunately not. There's been no, you know, no more social media about it, you know, other than what we do. Um there's been no more searches that they other than them finding the license, that is the only thing that has happened since the last time we spoke.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

Um I do know that, you know, lots and lots of people have been listening to the podcast, which is partially because of you and all of the sharing that you're doing and and and the relationships that you have with people in the community. And so, you know, that is an important thing. I think that our we have two things that we're really focused on here. One is giving families a platform to speak, and two is um shedding a spotlight. Like, let's put a spotlight on this case so that more people are talking about it and you know, as people in the community are speaking and finding things that, you know, we wouldn't expect to find, like the driver's license people know, because it's a possibility that if you know you hadn't been willing to come on the podcast, somebody might have found his driver's license and just not even known it was important.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 48:47

Yeah. Sometimes I'll see people take a picture of a driver's license and they'll put it on like social media, hey, and block out the name. But I don't know that somebody would have thought about. I'm assuming whoever found it contacted law enforcement. Otherwise, you know, we wouldn't have known that it was found. So um part of that is because of your advocacy and your willingness um to come forward. So we appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

Keep advocating for Cody until we find him. Uh we'll not stop.

SPEAKER_04 49:15

And I know this because you also are very um on Facebook. You know, I think every month you post something. It's been this many months, and I'm not stopping. And, you know, of course, we are your partner in this, and we are here to support you in whatever way that we can to help us um find Cody and figure out what happened to him.

SPEAKER_03 49:38

Yes, ma'am, because that is my, you know, most important priority to me right now is finding Cody, getting him back home.

SPEAKER_04 49:48

Um, is there any any other updates or anything that you would like to share since we last spoke with you that we haven't given you an opportunity to speak about?

SPEAKER_03 49:56

Um I think we've, you know, other than the license, like I said, everything that's been the biggest thing. Well, that's actually been the only thing that has come up that's new. Um but you know, of course, if there's anybody out there that knows anything, I mean y'all have a tip line, they could contact y'all, they could contact me. You know, just the smallest detail, you know, maybe the biggest detail. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 50:21

We agree. You've been listening to Tragedy, a true crime podcast. Our purpose is to honor victims by sharing their stories through the voices of friends, family, and those whose lives were forever changed. If today's episode resonated with you, we encourage you to subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast so these important stories continue to be heard. Together, we can preserve their memories and ensure their voices are never forgotten. If you have ideas for cases we should cover or questions about what you heard, you can connect with us through our Facebook group, Tragedy a True Crime Podcast, on X at Tragedy Podcast, by email at TragedyAtrue Crime Podcast at gmail.com, or by visiting our website www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com. Thank you for listening, and we hope you'll join us next time.