SPEAKER_00 0:00

In Tragedy, a true crime podcast, we discuss missing persons' cases, violent crime, and other sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Our show is a place where every story matters and every voice deserves to be heard. To support this podcast, you can subscribe at www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com for early access to new episodes. And join our Facebook community, Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast, for updates, discussions, and ways to support the families we feature. Welcome to Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast. I'm Elisa.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

And I'm Michael.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

In our last episode, we shared the story of Crystal Cook, her life, the tragedy that changed her family forever, and the lasting impact her loss continues to have more than two decades later. In this next episode, the focus shifts beyond the case itself and into the reality of what comes after. This is the continuation of our conversation with Lee Cook.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Yeah, I mean it's it's I'm listening to the story and it's it's one of those things that I know I'm preaching the choir here, but it just makes me angry to listen to it. Um from a perspective of even the cases we've worked on prior to this conversation, one of the things that we've learned and what we advocate and tell people to do is you have to keep the pressure on. Um while law enforcement, you know, I'm not saying they don't care. I think there's a lot of overhead, I think there's a lot of challenges, I think a lot of them are underfunded and under-supported. And I get the workload is immense, but the there also seems to be a lot of, okay, well, I can't solve this one right now, so I'm gonna move on to something that's easier. Or I'm gonna, or, or we couldn't figure this out in the first 24 or 48 hours or whatever. So, okay, well, you know, there's nothing else we can do now until someone else comes forward. There's there's so much there that we see every single day where, you know, I don't know, it's just it's so frustrating to listen to. And then you start running the statistics and find out that, you know, 20% of missing people are ever found, or 18% of people who are murdered are ever or their murders were ever solved. And so you start seeing these numbers like this, and it just and then you compound it with I'm listening to the victim advocate story about I mean, it doesn't sound like she was advocating for the victim at all. She you know, is I I can't tell, you know, incompetence, um, stupidity. Both yeah, both. Um, and it's just it's one of those things that you know I mean, how are it you know, you put it all together and it turns into now how do I trust law enforcement? How do I trust these um these people who are supposed to be supporting the victims? It's really difficult to keep that trust.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Well, and I I think it goes further in that. And I'll um tell you another story. I was talking to a district attorney out of Oregon, and his when we the first conversation we had with him when this parole hearing thing started, and this is what he said, his words, that the system is built for the criminals, they have all the rights, the victim does not have the rights, and this is exactly what he told me. And going through this process, it is absolutely true. I mean, there is no doubt about it. The victims get spit on, the victims. I mean, just it time and time again. I mean, it's it's just I had a meeting today with a uh gentleman that's running for the state legislature here in North Dakota, and that meeting was actually about this case, and his his agenda is about um his name's Kevin Remington, but his agenda is about um keeping violent criminals in prison because even here he was telling me that a lot of these violent criminals go into the jail system, and then you know, if they're supposed to serve 20 years, they're getting let out of 10 years, you know, they're not they're not actually being punished for their crimes and stuff. So we're actually I'm working with him to strengthen the laws here, too, to try to prevent some of the situation. But I I I really think a lot of the answer just lies with the people. And I I just think the victims got to get pissed off, like I have. And I remember my sister and my family and everybody involved in the situation. I, you know, no, the thing I keep hearing that drives me nuts is man, is you know, it's like you know, we're taking this knife to this gunfight constantly. You know, everybody's so worried about the niceties and you know, the language and the and the crap that's used and stuff. When, you know, you got a guy out there that smashed my daughter's head in, raped her, murdered her, and you know, pretended like he was helping us solve this crime for a year and stuff. And and then you got you know the justice system that just constantly pisses on you every time you turn around. And um, it's just it's mind-boggling how many times the victims get the shit kicked out of them.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

And sorry, and their family, and their families, yes, and their family.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

My family's been through hell. My my family, my mom, and my dad's been through hell, my sister, my brothers, I mean, anybody that's been involved in this situation. When this started 25 years ago, this changed our lives forever. There is no there is no going back to some kind of you know, this ignorance to somehow think that there's not evil in this world. It's it's changed how we uh educated our children, we homeschooled them. It's changed how every time they go somewhere, they call us to let us know they're there. It goes to the fact that, you know, we have, you know, we carry guns. I mean, we, you know, we we just there is no there is no like thinking somehow this is okay. I mean, it changes your perspective. You don't trust people. I mean, you just there's it changes everything about you.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

And so I feel this energy, right? I feel that I'm gonna call it anger that you're describing, and you're taking that energy and that anger and that emotion, and you're working on putting together a nonprofit. Um, tell us a little bit about that nonprofit.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Well, originally a nonprofit was set up to help teenage trouble teenage girls and stuff, you know, in some of these situations, whatever we could do. I mean, one of them was that um we had an employee that his sister's kids got taken away, and he there was three of them, and they were, you know, kind of you know, around the 10-year-old age, and he took them into their house. So, you know, my family and stuff, we did whatever we could to, you know, get clothes, um, food, whatever, to help him out in those situations, that situation, and that was kind of the original mission of this. But after going through the parole hearing and what we've gone through the last few months, you know, we all sat down and we decided that we need to expand the scope of what this um nonprofit does, and the scope of that is to obviously get involved in the victim advocate process with the victims, and if we can provide any kind of knowledge, if we can provide any kind of experience, what we've gone through, if we can, you know, if we can somehow highlight their case and bring pressure on parole boards. I mean, whatever we can do to help them, and even if it comes to a point, if we're getting supported, you know, financially, we'll help. So, you know, you know, a good example is we talked about this before we even went to the parole hearing. Fortunately enough, you know, we could pay for our we had to travel from North Dakota to Salem, Oregon. We had to travel there, you know, we had to have accommodations, we had to have food, and you know, not counting all the emotional shit that we had to deal with. But there was a huge cost for us to do that. And fortunately, we could do that, but what about the people that can't do that? What about people that can't afford to, you know, travel halfway across the United States to go to a parole hearing to do, you know, to honor their loved ones, you know, from some piece of shit that murdered them, you know? So, and that was one of the reasons we expanded the you know, the nonprofit is to try to help the victims, and we're closely related, you know. There's there's an organization, POMC. Are you guys familiar with that?

SPEAKER_00 9:10

No, we are not.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

It's actually it's called uh it's POMC for short for parents of murdered children. And uh Mary Eldridge, and I would I I would have people support that organization. They do a lot of good. Uh Mary out of Portland, Oregon, actually runs the chapter there. Great lady. She she was actually at the parole hearing. Matter of fact, she sat right beside me. We had a chance to talk, and my mom and my sister were heavily involved in it. They traveled all over to the conferences all over the country and stuff, and they they actually do a lot of good too. So I'm just you know, getting the word out there, if people want, you know, some organization to support Parents of Murdered Children, is one of those organizations. Matter of fact, the private investigator that's actually working on our parole on this criminal case in the prison right now is out of California, and she actually is a member of POMC, and she is a private investigator, and she does this free of charge for PMOC POMC for investigating these prisons and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Uh, how has the advocacy, the nonprofit that you're starting, the voices for crystal, how has this helping helped to channel the grief that your family has experienced into a purpose?

SPEAKER_01 10:32

I'm not gonna say anything, you know, out of the situation. I mean, me and my wife had this conversation, you know, everybody wants to spin it, you know, and you know, somehow paint these positives that come out of it. There is no positives from this situation, it's merely doing what you have to do and channeling energy in a way that for me it's honoring Crystal's life and her name and stuff. But to me, to say that somehow I feel good about it, I don't feel good about it. I do it because it's a necessity in my life to somehow cope with the situation.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

How can people support your efforts and the nonprofit and the voices for crystal and help to keep her story alive?

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Well, definitely follow the Voices for Crystal Facebook page. We try to post up on there regularly. We're trying to get involved in some of these other, you know, reach out. You know, we were just talking about that case in Texas with that FedEx driver that trial was done today and that young girl. I mean, what a horrific situation. I mean, just and then, you know, we talked about, you know, we've been matter of fact, I was starting to watch your guys' podcast on Haley out of um out of Kallett's County there and stuff. We, you know, we've been, you know, we reached out. I mean, we had a post on there, you know, reaching out to the family and stuff, if there's anything we can do to help them. But, you know, I mean, you know, I don't want to make it about money because it's not about money. What I want to make it about is people get involved, whether it's with their district attorneys, whether it's with their victim advocate offices, whether it's with the victims themselves, supporting the victims through this process, because it is a brutal process. I mean, to have that kind of loss and then have to deal with this system that has no regard for the victims, it isn't it is a brutal process, you know. Get involved. I mean, if you've got if you've lost somebody or you know of somebody, you know, support that family. Um, you know, follow our page, follow this podcast. I mean, do whatever you can, you know, get involved in the, you know, in your local, you know, government as far as the law enforcement goes. I mean, that's one of the conversations I had with Kevin today because he is having meetings with the Department of Corrections, he's having meetings with law enforcement, he's doing, he's he's um putting a plan together to strengthen the laws with this the criminal process. But the one of the reasons I got involved with him is because I want him to get more involved in the victim side of it. I want him to be aware of the prison systems and what's going on in these prison systems, and I want him to be aware of, you know, you know, bringing weather laws to help the victims and support the victims any way they can.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

As I'm listening to you, you know, we've had this podcast for almost a year, and what's coming to mind for me n for the very first time now, as I'm listening to you, is the complexity of this Department of Corrections, victim agy, lawyers, sheriff's departments, uh coroners, all the I mean, it's just so complex. And I can see now, as I'm listening to you, how complicated this can be for families and going through the trauma that they're experiencing at the same time. So I just want to just say how much we appreciate that you are working on putting together this nonprofit to help families begin to even start where where do they start when these things are happening? So I just want to publicly thank you for doing that work and know that we are here to support getting the word out on that nonprofit in any way that we can.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Well, and I thank you for that. It's gonna take it's gonna take people like you guys, it's gonna take people like my family, it's gonna take people like my sister, and and that's somebody you might want to talk to eventually, is have a um conversation with her because she's she's been pretty vicious through this process too, and she's emotionally it's really um it's just taking a toll on everybody.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Yeah, I mean, um the viciousness is the part that I that just resonated with me is you know, even the case we're working on right now with Latanya uh and her family is I mean, again, same thing, you know, this person was murdered, and they took a you know, uh they took a couple pieces of pieces of paper to the state attorney's office, they said not enough, and then they closed the case.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

For aggravated battery. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

And, you know, so one thing that's come out of that, I guess that is um really helpful is we we met with the family and we said, you're gonna have to start talking, and you're gonna have to start going to people, stop calling, stop emailing, show up, knock on their door, and as a result, um, then we just get some information that their their case is being reopened and re-investigated.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Well, they didn't really even know what to do, right? This is a marginalized group of people in the small community, and the case was closed by the state's attorney's office, and they had no idea what to do. Like the system is so complex, and that was what, 12 years ago, and it's only through us hearing about it and bringing it back that now it looks like hopefully it will be reopened, right? So the work that Lee is doing with the nonprofit is going to help these families, and so that they're not sitting there for 12 years getting nothing for a child that was for their daughter that was.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Yeah, you're right, because I mean I mean, we even even when we were speaking with them, they seemed um shocked is not the right word, but just confused. Like we don't know what the next step is. And that's right. And that's why we told them, I'm like, you have to get on the phone, you have to start harassing people. That's right. They are not gonna care about your love more than you do. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

And they're not, and you're gonna have to I, you know, if you know they want to contact us. I mean, we don't have no problem, you know. Fortunately, we have a business, and my daughter handles a lot of the Facebook stuff. If they want us get some attention going on that Facebook page, I whatever we can do to help them, but they I I can I can tell you from experience, man, you gotta you gotta be relentless, man. I mean, you gotta I don't care. The one thing you know you'll hear, and I've heard this, I don't know, all pretty much all my life, and is you know, they just want you to be quiet, they want you to go away, and you gotta make them understand. And I wrote these emails even to the inspector general in Oregon and the district attorneys, and I was very clear in them, I'm not going away. I mean, this is that is not an option. So we're gonna figure something out here one way or another. My sister's been the same way, she's been relentless. So if I mean you just you you I mean, it doesn't mean that you have to be belligerent with them, Ben, but you just cannot, you cannot back down and you gotta start thinking of every not just district attorneys, but I mean you gotta try to get the uh governor involved. I mean, one thing I gotta say about the prison system and the criminal justice system, they hate bad press, man. I gotta get I do gotta say that. So if you can get the media out there, if you can get I mean, that's what was so powerful about the voices for Crystal. I mean, um we started that out of desperation of going up to this parole hearing, and it was instrumental in what happened through that process.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Well, and we can also learn from you, you know, the the reason we started this whole podcast is because Michael's uncle uh was murdered and it's unsolved. It's a cold case, no arrests, no nothing, no ever. And that's what really started it for us. And we are now learning from you and others in our journey how we can continue to support the family and be relentless. And for us, it was walking into the sheriff's office one day and just asking to speak to the sheriff after multiple emails, phone calls. And we we just walked in, we just drove on over there, walked in and said, Hey, we would like to meet with Sheriff Miller. And they were like, uh and they well, they didn't send Sheriff Miller.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

They didn't know what to do, though.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

But we got a meeting, yeah. Right. So I really like how you're describing the difference between just being relentless, but not like I think the word you was was belligerent. Right. I love that differentiation. Um and and I think it's great advice.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Well, and my family has to hold me back because I can be belligerent because I I mean, I just uh we've lost so much that I don't give a shit about their feelings. I just don't. I don't give a shit about the quorum, and I I do it out of respect for my family and stuff, but I don't care personally. But I know that sometimes, you know, like the conversation I had with the inspector general yesterday, I was very respectful because I had a sense that maybe this guy might do the right thing. I'm not saying he's gonna, because we've had numerous emails with him, we've been communicating with him, and he's there isn't a full-on investigation, and I know that's going on. I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt right now. But and I I told him, I mean, if if some you know, if it if for some reason things aren't happening, man, we demanded a conference call every two weeks with him. I mean, we know the detective that's working on it with him, you know. I mean, he I mean, I just you just you cannot back down, and that's what these people want to do to you. They want you not to say something, they want you not to push the issue, and the one thing that people need to remember, and I I've said this through this process, is this is just a job to them, okay? And I hate to say it, but most people with a job don't give a shit, okay? There is some people, there's good people that do, but most people it's about nine to five or whatever it is, and when they go home, it they don't they don't care. And and if it's your loved one, there's no way they you most of them people are not losing sleep at night over your loved one.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

You see, you bring up something else that really resonates me with me is demanding some sort of communication every two weeks. Like we talk about, we want law enforcement to tell us what's going on, but what we really want is law enforcement to tell our families what's going on. And that doesn't mean when they happen, you know, oh, let's go by the share. That means proactive scheduling communication from law enforcement to the family, not the other way around. Um, so you're what you are saying is just really, really sticking with me as far as how we are trying to support our families and get that line of communication consistent and proactive.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Well, and I'll tell you one more thing that's not isn't on, you know, is I don't know if it's a secret or what however you want to put it. Crim the justice system's more concerned about the criminal than the victim. I'm just gonna put that out there right now. And if you think that's untrue, walk through this process and you'll learn real quick who's the important player in this process, man. I mean, it's mind-boggling through the lengths they'll go to accommodate a piece of shit murder, and you know, they'll spit on the victim.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Is there anything we haven't asked you about that you feel is important to share?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Well, we could go on all night. There's so much involved in this that I mean, this there's no way this could be done. And I mean, I mean, we're just kind of scratching the surface right now.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Yeah, one thing I definitely want to make sure we stay updated on is this whole criminal investigation that's going on in inside the prison. I find it fascinating, but in a bad way, that that this can be allowed, that this ever happened. Yeah. That you can build an entire criminal enterprise. Um, I mean, does he have an LLC? Is he filing for taxes? I mean, what's going on?

SPEAKER_01 23:02

He's got a trust the guy. He married it, he married a woman from France in prison. This is no kidding. He married a woman from France in prison, because this even was brought up at the parole hearing, and she on the outside is helping him. She controls some of the money on the outside. And we have financial records. I mean, we sh I mean the money that's coming into him, he's got people literally sending him every month a list of people that are sending him between three and eight hundred dollars a month, every month, and then he's um he's got he's con women into signing their mom's life insurance policy over to him. He has his wife on the outside, is from France. This is all verified, and she controls account on the outside of the prison for him. There, this is a full-on enterprise. This isn't good lord, this isn't something that he just got up and called a few people. This is an on that was one of the again. When I go back to those informant letters, that was what so was in so in pivotal about those letters. It literally spelled out him bragging about this enterprise that he's got going in the prison, and then all of the financial records that they uh brung to the parole hearing, which the ones we seen were what like 50 pages or something. There was like 50 pages of financial records of every transaction and stuff, and um of him scamming people out of money, and yeah, there is a full-on uh investigation going on. That's something else.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

I don't even know how to respond to that.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

You can't. I mean, matter of fact, one of the parole board members looked at we had 25 people in this room at the parole hearing, couldn't fit any more people. There was no more people that could be fit in this room, and looked and said to said to the murderer, how do you think these people feel sitting here listening to you brag about your wife from France and getting all these money from this people, taking your vitamins in prison, working out, and the guy, the guy was literally talking about how how he how he could actually understand how we feel. The guy that smashed my daughter's head in is actually trying to tell us, raped my daughter, is trying to tell us he actually understands how we feel.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

I want to make sure that people are able to find the Facebook group. Um, so I want to spell Crystal's name because I know there are several different ways to spell Crystal. So it is Voices for Crystal and it's K-R-Y-S-T-L-E. Did I get that right? Yeah, okay. Um, so I we want everybody to go um visit Voices for Crystal, um, join what they're doing over there and watch for more information from us um about the Crystal Rose Cook nonprofit.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yes, and you know, if you guys you're talking to people that need to talk, just talk to somebody who's been through this. Not I mean, just need somebody to listen to. I mean, you know, tell them not to hesitate to contact us. I mean, we're we understand it. I mean, we've been through it, and it's been a brutal, just like you guys are going through it with your uncle.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

You've been listening to Tragedy, a true crime podcast. Our purpose is to honor victims by sharing their stories through the voices of friends, family, and those whose lives were forever changed. If today's episode resonated with you, we encourage you to subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast so these important stories continue to be heard. Together, we can preserve their memories and ensure their voices are never forgotten. If you have ideas for cases we should cover or questions about what you heard, you can connect with us through our Facebook group, Tragedy a True Crime Podcast, on X at Tragedy Podcast, by email at Tragedy a True Crime Podcast at gmail.com, or by visiting our website www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com. Thank you for listening, and we hope you'll join us next time.