SPEAKER_01 0:00

In Tragedy, a true crime podcast, we discuss missing persons' cases, violent crime, and other sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Our show is a place where every story matters and every voice deserves to be heard. To support this podcast, you can subscribe at www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com for early access to new episodes. And join our Facebook community, Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast, for updates, discussions, and ways to support the families we feature. Welcome to Tragedy a True Crime Podcast. I'm Elisa.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

And I'm Michael.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

And today we're joined by Haley's sister, Ashley. Ashley has been closely involved in the search for answers since Haley disappeared, working alongside her family to understand what happened and to keep attention on her case. Ashley will share who Haley is beyond the missing person report, walk through the known timeline surrounding her disappearance, and discuss the unanswered questions that continue to concern her family. Her perspective offers important context on both the investigation and the ongoing impact this case has had on those closest to Haley. Thank you for being here and welcome to the show. Yes, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Okay, what we're going to do that we kind of started this season is, you know, some of the obviously most of the topics we're talking about are pretty tough. So we'd like to start a little bit lighter. So what we get into is kind of a question game. So Elisa, why don't you kick us off?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

All right. So your first question: pancakes or waffles? Uh waffles. I think we're the same, right, Michael?

SPEAKER_02 1:48

I think so. Um, one of the things that's how we know. Yeah, that's how we know. I didn't realize that Elisa would have this affinity to go to Waffle House as often as she wants to go because let's face it, it's not top shelf stuff here. But you can get a waffle, and that's what she actually wants. And so Waffle House, waffles.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Mine gets um chocolate chips on it, and you get peanut butter chips. Peanut butter chips. Uh yeah, and I actually looked to see if you guys have Waffle House out there in the Pacific Northwest, and I don't think you do, do you?

SPEAKER_00 2:20

I don't think so. We have pancake houses and IHOPs, but other than that, we don't really have specific waffle houses.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Yeah, there's a place, it's a chain, it's called Waffle House, and some people really love it and some people don't. Um, they're open 24 hours, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:35

They are, they're open 24 hours. In fact, in the southeast, yes, you can actually tell how um powerful a hurricane's gonna be here because if they don't close the Waffle House, that's a good sign. If they close the Waffle House, you need to beat the hell out of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yes. Oh, that's bad. Interesting. And I know they have come in Denver. I've seen Waffle Houses in Denver. I don't know that they go any farther west of the house. I don't think so. You know, if you ever make a trip out, you know, to the middle of the country, I strongly suggest waffle houses.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

You know, and shout out to Maggie. I know Nat Maggie's not gonna like this, but um, we are definitely trying to still encourage people to go visit waffle houses and see what everyone's talking about and what they're missing.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Yeah, I was surprised I never heard of that. I used to live in Colorado for a couple years, so yeah, there's one in the Denver metro area.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

There might be more than that, but I know that one for sure. Maggie was um in our listener round table uh when we covered Ian Rogers' case, and she's not a fan of Waffle House, so we always send her pictures every time we go. So shout out to Maggie. All right. Tell us about your favorite vacation.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Ooh um I went to Hawaii with my brother. Unfortunately, Haley was not a part of that. Um, but we went and celebrated my grandfather's um memorial actually, and spent a week in Hawaii um surfing and going on the um, oh goodness, what is it called? The road to Dahana, and you know, checking out all the cool beaches, um, you know, and just really spending that quality time with my family.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Hawaii, great choice. Yes, yeah, I love Hawaii. So we have uh sort of interesting story about favorite vacations. Many, many years ago, we were at, you know, the holiday work Christmas party. Michael worked for a really small office. I think there were maybe 10 people. And so we were having a sit-down dinner and going around the table talking about our favorite vacation. It came to him first and he started talking about this fly fishing trip that we had taken to Montana, which I had to interrupt him and say, that was actually my least favorite vacation ever. So it was a really strange like his very favorite was my least favorite. Um, it was hot, it was 105 degrees in Montana. Um, we we were camping and we did not have an air conditioner um at the time and that camper that we had, and I just like pass, no thank you.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

But for you, yeah, it was the the one of the best fly fishing trips I've ever been on. So it's still it's one of my top five still, as much as she was miserable. You made it. You made it you made it through.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

I did, but remember we stopped at a hotel room on the way back because you were like, I'm gonna Yeah, she wasn't gonna talk to me much longer if I didn't get her into an air conditioner, so and that's why the hotel happened. Yeah, yeah. So funny story there. All right, last question. Where do you see yourself five years from now?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Oh, well, I'm a mom. So um raising my kids. Hopefully, I am moving to Oregon soon to get out of this state. Um, but I work for a trucking company. Um, and I've been pretty successful doing my position now. So um working and being a family person. Um we're also working on a nonprofit, getting that started for my in my sister's um name. You know, it's gonna be Bugs Legacy. So um just being a big part of that and um being a mom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Uh Michael, where where do you see?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

I guess it's us. Where do you see us five years from now?

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Celebrating you answering that question.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Because I said us and yes. It's actually really funny. You're you're funny. I feel like in five years, like right now we do a lot of traveling in our uh travel trailer. I feel like we'll still be doing that in five years, maybe not at the same clip that we are now. Like last year, I think we had 10,000 miles. Um, this year we're going all the way to Las Vegas, all the way up to Minot, all the way back down to the southeast. So, I mean, I think we'll still be doing that, maybe just not as much as we are now.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Agree.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Which I would I would think, and maybe kind of hang down here in the southeast and enjoy the beaches. And I heard you talk about surfing. We're really big into paddleboarding and kayaking. Water is a big thing for me. Having grown up in the Denver area, I'll be around water as much as I can now. So I that's kind of what I'm thinking. Hopefully, that's kind of on your radar too, Michael.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Oh, of course.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Okay, good. All right, well, thank you for that. It was good um getting to know you a little um better. And we'll just call ourselves the waffle crew because I kind of like it. I think I love waffles. It's good to me as long as they're crispy. No soggy waffles. Yes. That makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Same.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

All right. So let's talk. Um, let's start our conversation about Haley. And we want to start out with just asking you what do you want people to know about Haley?

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Um, yeah, my sister is, you know, one of a kind type of people. You know, she she did struggle with addiction pretty early on in her life, unfortunately. Um, but she was a great sister. Um, she was a great mom to her girls. Um, she was a great friend. Um, and she was a great, you know, family member um overall. Haley was always lighted up the room when she were to walk into. She always made sure that everyone else was taken care of, especially myself and my brother. She always was a caretaker. Um, and like I said, unfortunately, addiction was one of those things that just happened to really take a toll on her and was one of those things that unfortunately we we couldn't be.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Something that is really important to us, and um, our listeners know this is that we really want to um get to know the person, like the actual person, and we do not name someone by maybe some of their behaviors or things that were overwhelming to them. Those don't define the people that we're talking about. And we found that our families feel like that's what happens and in the news and and all that kind of stuff, it just becomes more of you know so and so, the addiction instead of naming the person. And so we're just really grateful that you're bringing all these great positive things to the forefront because sometimes those things get missed. We have learned when um these kinds of unfortunate things happen to people. So and so speaking about that, take yourself back to kind of the days, what months, and and weeks before she went missing. Did you notice anything unusual happening or something that, as you reflect, stood out to you?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Um, not off the top of my head. My sister and I, you know, since she was in active recovery, uh, we weren't extremely close like we had been when I was younger. Um, you know, she kind of bounced in, bounced out, um, would kind of come and go as she pleases, wouldn't really stay in contact, but would make sure that, you know, every now and then, hey, just wanted to check in, how are you doing? So when it comes to the timeline of her leading up to it, no, just because it it wasn't abnormal for her not to check in on a daily basis, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah, and that's what makes it more complicated than it already is, is when you have someone that you're in constant communication with, uh, and maybe it's like a day and you don't hear from them, then you start up those red flags kind of go up. But it seems like in this case, wasn't there kind of a gap between when she was verifiably last seen and when she was reported missing?

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah. Um, so the last time she was seen was in around Thanksgiving of 2024. Um, and she wasn't reported missing until January um of 2025. Um, you know, like I said, it wasn't abnormal for her to, you know, not communicate. You know, she, you know, battled with a lot of things personally. Um, and you know, we would reach out, she wouldn't always have like a phone or a way to communicate with us. She didn't have, you know, a cell phone to be able to just call and text whenever she wanted. She really used, you know, like the the third-party apps like Facebook and um what is that app? WhatsApp. Is that what it's called? Yes, WhatsApp. So we didn't really get the chance to just pick up the phone and call her. Um, so yeah, there was a pretty big gap. Like I said, nothing really stood out to us or the family because it wasn't abnormal for her.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Mm-hmm. Yes. So um who can you tell us who did report her missing and what happened in, you know, in the days directly after she was reported missing?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah, of course. Um her best friend Shasta actually reported her missing. Um, you know, she noticed that she hadn't reached out and applied a while. Um, she had reached out a couple times, never really got a response. Um, and Shasta called, called it in. Um, she immediately started setting up searches in the area, um, hunting down um, you know, leads. She still is to this day, trying to find leads, talking to people out on the street, putting herself in positions that weren't necessarily safe just to figure out answers for my sister. Um, you know, uh, her ID and some other um items for my sister were located outside of or inside of a bush, um, outside of an apartment building. And that's kind of where it all, I guess, started. You know, she started from there, hunted down who found it, um, and then continued to search. I mean, to this day, she goes out and searches probably every day.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Yes, we have um what we have learned during the course of this work is there seems to always be one like bright, shining, fierce star in every story. Um, no matter who we're covering, there's always that one person who is just doing whatever it takes. Sometimes there's more than one, but there's always that one beacon. And we have spoken um with Shasta. And, you know, in fact, one of the calls that I was going to have with her, she wasn't able to get back to me because she I had been out at like 2 in the 2 a.m. in the morning, something had happened and she'd gotten a lead and she went out after it. And oh 100%. Yeah. So what you're describing, obviously, you all know and have experienced over the course of this, and we've just experienced that just in our short time of um getting to know you guys and um hear about Haley's story. So Shasta is that one fierce shining star um in this story. And so can you talk to us about law enforcement's response to um the missing person's report?

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Oh, gee. Um in my personal opinion, I don't really think that they did much. Um, you know, when it comes to um what is the word called? Um, oh gosh, uh you know, shining light, I should say, on my sister's case or social media or anything. They just were like, nope, we're not gonna do any of that. You can do it, but we're not gonna do any of that. Anytime anybody from the news or media or even the daily news reached out to comment on it, they refused. Um, you know, personally being a sister of somebody that has been missing that has three daughters, you know, one of which I am raising. Um, you know, they deserve answers. We deserve answers. And for them to, in my opinion, not respond or give us updates or really have anything to do with it is terrifying. You know, like you said at the beginning of the show, they they see Haley, they see that she has a drug addiction, she's had previous other mental illnesses, and they just paint it as, oh, she was a drug eat, no big deal. That's not the case. My sister doesn't just go missing, you know? So it's it's very frustrating, it's very worrisome that law enforcement just paint this picture and then throw it on the counter for later, you know.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Talk more talk more about the ID that you found in the bush. Any details around that you can share?

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Um, yeah, so they found um an ID, they found a bag, they found a tablet, um, and some other items um that can't be named, but um, you know, one of those things was claimed by somebody else saying, Oh, that wasn't Haley's, this was actually mine, which later on we found out was actually false, and they had been accessing my sister's Facebook um after she had been reported missing. And to this day, they uh can't find that tablet now. It's gone. Her ID, you know, that was recovered, but still hasn't been given to family. Um, it still had held for evidence. Couldn't really figure anything out about that, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

So are you saying that these items were discovered, taken to law enforcement, and then the tablet was the released to somebody else? Is that what you're describing?

SPEAKER_00 16:11

These these items were found by somebody else, um, obviously. And some of the items were taken to law enforcement and others were not.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

So someone kept the tablet, and then that's how they were able to log in. Shasta talks about that how um that what that looked like on Facebook, but I don't think that we had clarity because we were asking questions about how did somebody get into her account, but this helps clear that up.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

That bridges that, yeah, because I was we were trying to figure out like how did they have access, things like that. But if they had a tablet that she already had, things automatically logging in, that owl makes sense now.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

That maybe was unlocked or something.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Exactly. And it's crazy because you know, we have notifications on our phone and we get notifications on a daily, you know, friends and family. Um, her daughter, her oldest daughter is actually 16, and at one point she got notifications. Oh, Haley is on TikTok, she wants to be your friend, you know, or these random posts being posted on Facebook of, you know, my family doesn't know me, this was on purpose, or I deserve this, just come rape me. Um, this person was posting very vulgar things, pretending to be her, and it, you know, her s her daughter has social media. You know, her family has social media, and just to see those things and not see any action by, you know, the sheriff's department or even any police is it's terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Trying at least to figure out who's posting that information and then maybe determining if they do have some kind of connection or just happened to be around when this tablet was found and said, Oh, hey, here's a tablet, I'm gonna take it. But then that's malicious. Like if you're just gonna be, ooh, I found a tablet, you're not just gonna go and do these horrible things that you're describing. So I think this is something we definitely need to continue to pursue and think about um as we sort of investigate this, because that's very strange to me.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Yeah, you don't have to use the name, but I'm curious, did did you ever were you able to track down who who had the tablet?

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Um we have suspicions, um, but we have not been able to a hundred percent confirm that.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Got it.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

This is very that's very interesting. We we haven't had a situation come up like this where someone else outside of what we believe to be involved has something that belongs to someone who's missing. I don't think that's come up yet. So this is a new thing for us to kind of think about how to dig into um and maybe shed some light on what's going on there. So explain to us what you know about um this last verifiable sighting of her in November.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Oh goodness. So she went up um, you know, mushroom picking with um a guy named Nick Um in a stolen truck that we've actually found out. Um, went out to the woods, went mushroom picking. He came out, she did not. Um, that truck, which I actually found on Facebook and um talked to the police officers about, had actually been found um wrecked up in the woods, and they returned it to the owner before they realized that this was tied to my sister's case. Um, so that truck is actually crazy enough, up located actually up in my area, um, which is about I would say two and a half to three hours away um north from where um that location is, you know, and once I was able to uh, you know, get more details on that truck and get it back to the deputies, they said that they checked it, but there was no evidence that my sister was ever in that truck. Although there were sightings of her being in that truck. That was the last place that anyone saw her.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Are these eyewitness sightings or were they traffic camera sightings?

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Mostly eyewitnesses, people that had seen her, people that um knew that who she was with. Um, you know, she got picked up in that specific truck from um from places.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

So the suspicion is that Nick had this vehicle for a while, even though it was stolen.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Yes, he had it for a little bit of time, even though it was stolen. Uh, that was a a trend that has come to light that he would steal vehicles, um, crash them. There was this place that was known up in that area where the truck was found to wreck them, and then they would be pushed off into um basically off a cliff, and that that truck was up located near that same area.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

So this is the equivalent of what happens down here in Florida. People take vehicles, drive them around, junk them up, and then put them in canals and ponds and rivers and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

There's not a lot of cliffs to toss them over.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Not in Florida. Yeah, there are a lot of sinkholes.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Yeah, and up here in Washington, you know, we have a lot of tree land. We have a lot of state land, hunting land. Um so to even locate the last exact place my sister could have been is almost impossible. Um, unfortunately. And, you know, Nick had keys to Warehouser land, which is you have to have a key to get in. Where he got that key, we have no idea, but that's even a possibility. You know, we've had videos sent to us um of him walking through land where people are like, where are we going? And he's like, You'll just see, you'll just see. And it's like these crazy lakes out in the middle of nowhere where you would have never known that they were there, ever. You know, so even seeing those videos, you know, thinking back of Let's go mushroom hunting and then her just never coming out. It's like, will we ever will we ever get answers to that at that point?

SPEAKER_01 22:07

I have one more question about this truck. Do you have like the make, the model? Because we have um because we have Michael has gotten very adept at using satellite software and public websites to capture images of vehicles and timestamp them. And I'm wondering if you have information, like identifiable information about this vehicle, and could give us like the approximate geographical area. He could possibly be doing some work and creating a timeline of where this vehicle is.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

That's correct.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

So I don't know the exact location that it was found up in the woods. Um, but it was a red lifted uh Ford. Um, I don't remember the make of the model, but I know that I have it in my messages to the sheriff's office. So once I can locate those, I can definitely um let you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

That would be great. And we're talking about like October, November, maybe even December of 2024. That would be perfect. Um, and then what is the town that we like, what is the most well-known town that we would kind of start our search from?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Probably Rose Valley was the last place that she was known to go up to um with this guy. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

That's extremely helpful. Now we have been to the Pacific Northwest, but we don't know it the way we know Florida, the way we know Colorado. Like we've been to like the touristy places, right? Olympic National Park, Mount Rainier, that kind of stuff. So um this is extremely helpful for us. Um definitely gives us a place to start and do some more investigation. I have started to sort of think about these cases as puzzles. And it's a weird puzzle because you don't what you don't know what puzzle you're trying to finish with because you don't know the outcome, but you know that you have to have certain pieces and put them in certain places. And I think this conversation about the truck is very important and will help us to maybe help build some something as well. We should and let you know that I will be requesting any and all information from the local law enforcement agency. Sometimes they give us stuff, sometimes they don't. Um, but I am going to be requesting that and I will look specifically for some more information about the truck. You talked about um Shasta and the searches. Um talk and you talked about law enforcement. What did the searching look like from a family perspective and community perspective?

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Oh Lord. Um, so as you know, I'm a mother. Um, I'm currently expecting, yeah, but I have two of my own, well, one of my own. I'm raising Haley's uh youngest, and then um I also have a stepson. So we're pretty busy, um, you know, appointments and all that stuff. So I've only been able to attend a few searches, but um, and my mom can share some more about her story, but um, you know, the first search my mom ever went on, she actually fell and broke her leg and her arm. Wow. Um, and the very first, yeah, very first, she actually just got her knee replacement and is still out of work from that fall. So that's been that's been a crazy ride. We have gone out, me and my fiance have gone out with um Shasta, and I remember going out on this road and just questioning every little person we could see. And, you know, we thought what he saw a little bit of hope. At one point, you know, this guy, you know, had asked about the flyer, and we told him, hey, look, this is the last person she, you know, she was seen with. Here's a picture. And he goes, Oh my gosh, that looks like the guy down the road. And he said he owns a little bit of land, he's known to, you know, do drugs, he has people on and off of his property all the time, yada yada yada. Go to Jim Bob, I don't remember his name at this point, but go to Jim Bob's on the street and he'll tell you all about it. And me and Shasta look at each other and we're just like, no way, no way, this can't be happening. So we go to Jim Bob's house, and sure enough, he's like, Nope, don't know anything, can't help ya. So that was a dead end. It was very, very sad. You know, one tip that we got was always to look down embankments and you know, look at any little hole we could find or trenches or you know, anything. And you know, my boyfriend climbed down, or my fiance now climbed down a very large and steep embankment because we had noticed a tarp, you know, um, down there over by a tree. And Shasta and I just kept looking at it and looking at it, and we're like, that just doesn't look right. It just doesn't look like you know, it it's very suspicious. And you know, when you're looking at something for so long, your mind kind of makes you see things, right? That's kind of at the point that we were at is you know, we've been out there for so long. Um, and we were looking so hard. We had drove so far out in the middle of nowhere. And I mean, he ended up going down there and finding some cars that had been down there for years. Nothing crazy, a bunch of popcans and beers and you know, like I said, cars, the tarp dead end, just a bunch of leaves and trash, um, unfortunately, but the anxiety and all of the mixed emotions going into searches like that, you know, and the ups and downs of have you seen her? Have you not? What what can you guys tell us about this area? You know, and that one thing still sticks out to me that that guy's property. You know, hey, go talk to this person, and he knows exactly what happened. He knows because he's friends with that guy, and then us just immediately getting turned down. I mean, granted, this guy was older, probably in his 60s, 70s, maybe, but it's still very, very concerning that you know this guy that we spoke to is like go talk to that person. He knows him, he knows him for sure. And then getting shut down, basically the door shoved in our face.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Did you report that to law enforcement? We did. Okay. Nothing came of it. I'm great. I'm glad that you did. So many times people talk about these kinds of things and then they we ask them, and then they say no, and we're like, oh, you know, any little thing, any tiny little thing we say so many times, law enforcement decides what's important and what's not. If it, if it's something that, you know, sparks like this obviously resonated with you, then people should talk about it. And one thing that kind of really stuck with me is your telling you're talking about your searching, is even a couple of weeks ago, we were, it's not really a hike, we were taking a walk um in a wooded area of Florida. And I I said to Michael, I said, you know, these things that we do now in the woods, they hit differently for us because we have missing two people who are missing who could be anywhere in these woods, and we're out walking, and we know what they were both wearing when they went missing and it's specific colors. And so as I'm walking along, I'm looking because it's it's blue. One of them was wearing a blue shirt, and you're not going to necessarily just see that out in the woods here in North Florida. So I'm literally looking for something blue, something I would have never even thought would ever happen, you know, is has changed the trajectory of sometimes the things that we do. Even driving down the road, I'm looking on the side. Is there a cell phone? Is there something there? So while I don't, the people who are missing are not connected to me in the way you are connected to to Haley, it we hit it hits the same for us. Yeah. Um, so talk about the impact that her disappearance has. I mean, obviously, you are raising one of her children. Um, so just tell us, and it hasn't been, it's been what, a little over a year. Um, how is this still impacting you?

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Yeah, so I've had her youngest uh basically since birth. It's been it's been very tough. Um, you know, we weren't able to get any pictures of her and her daughter, her youngest daughter um to share with her. And her youngest daughter is a very medically fragile child. Um, you know, I go to probably 10 plus appointments a month for her alone, not including myself, not including my fiance or or our stepson or even my own son, but her alone. Um, that has been a huge impact. I do work, I'm fortunate enough to be able to work for a family-owned business. I see the owners almost on a daily basis, them just really supporting family. I'm able to take that time away from work to be able to get to these appointments. Um, because we could have up to three to four appointments a week. And then, you know, you have to keep, you know, the state involved and you know, everybody else. But um it's been a huge impact because how do you explain to you know, these three girls what happened to their mom? Where's their mom? Why did they never know their mom? Um, what happened to their mom? Um, why don't we know? Why didn't the police do anything? Um, it's it's very hard to think about you know what we're gonna say when these girls get older. It's very hard.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

We are currently um covering a case, a missing person's case out of Catskill, New York. It's Audrey Heron, and she's been missing since 2002. Um, and at the time when she went missing, she also had three children. Um, and one was 10, and the others were littler, so they don't necessarily have recollection, but um her her oldest daughter, who was 10 at the time, um, did come on and talk with us about the impact losing her mom at 10 under the circumstances that you're describing has had on her, and just you know, the not knowing and the questioning, and you know, is someone close to the case involved and all of these kinds of things. And so, you know, it's a there are some similarities there. And I think Sancia is just, you know, she is an amazing example of perseverance. Agreed. Right. Through and she's we spoke with her. She's actually she is pregnant as well, and we were talking about her CrossFit jumping. She's like, Oh, I'm still jumping, just not a lot. So um, you know, it is, I think, in the moment, uh, very challenging to think about how that will um impact those children. But we can tell you that Sancia is a she's a survivor, right? And she's, I don't know, come through it as the right term, but um, she's done really well for herself and she's great and a fierce advocate for her mom. Um, and I just want to say as a side note, I we really look forward to hearing more about the nonprofit that you guys are working on and um getting our yellow shirts. I know Shasta is working on getting us some of Haley's yellow shirts, um, and she's gonna send those out to us so we can start spreading the word um on the opposite side of the country.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Yes, yes. So it's still at the very beginning stages, um, obviously, of this nonprofit, but it is going to be an organization for people that are struggling with um, you know, mental health and substance abuse to be able to get the resources that they really need and an outreach, you know, it has a lot of um bearing with us. You know, my mom is a recovering addict, she's been clean for over 20 years. Um, Shasta is also a recovering addict. She has been clean for several years. Um, one of Amanda, she'll be on one of the episodes. She's also a recovering addict, best friends with my sister, you know, my stepfather, you know, my sister. So this has a huge impact on me. Just being the advocate, you know, on I never went down that path. I saw it and I kind of chose a different path for myself and my family. But, you know, the bug's legacy is Haley's legacy. It is something that will forever be with us. You know, we used to call her um, my mom used to call her little bug. That actually got passed on to her oldest daughter. And now we call her little bug. Um, she's obviously she's 16 now, so we don't really get the chance to do that.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

She probably loves it.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Yes. Um, but yeah, it's mostly just for an outreach and resources for those that are really struggling and really want to, you know, help themselves. We don't have enough of that. You know, we have a lot more substance abuse in Washington than we do resources, and it's really unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Is there anything that you wanted to share about Haley or about this case that we did not give you an opportunity to share?

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Um, no, you know, Haley, Haley was a great person overall. Um, like I said, she she struggled from a young age from you know substance abuse and mental health, but that doesn't define who she is. She is a loving person, she's kind, she's spunky, she's outgoing, she was definitely in troublemaker, that's for sure. Um, but she always had made sure that everyone was okay and always had everybody else's back. You know, whenever somebody was in trouble or, you know, felt threatened in any way, Haley was there. She had your back no matter who you were. You know, Haley was a great person. She was a great mom when, you know, when she was able to. Um, but yeah, I just I just hope that one day closure is brought to us and especially to our daughters.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

You've been listening to Tragedy, a true crime podcast. Our purpose is to honor victims by sharing their stories through the voices of friends, family, and those whose lives were forever changed. If today's episode resonated with you, we encourage you to subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast so these important stories continue to be heard. Together, we can preserve their memories and ensure their voices are never forgotten. If you have ideas for cases we should cover or questions about what you heard, you can connect with us through our Facebook group, Tragedy a True Crime Podcast, on X at Tragedy Podcast, by email at Tragedy a True Crime Podcast at gmail.com, or by visiting our website www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com. Thank you for listening, and we hope you'll join us next time.