SPEAKER_01 0:00

In Tragedy, a true crime podcast, we discuss missing persons' cases, violent crime, and other sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Our show is a place where every story matters and every voice deserves to be heard. To support this podcast, you can subscribe at www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com for early access to new episodes. And join our Facebook community, Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast, for updates, discussions, and ways to support the families we feature.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Thank you for everyone that's joined us today. One of the things that we're going to do is we've been getting a lot of feedback from our community about where the what is the status of these various cases? What's the status of the Cody case? What's the status of the Ian Rogers case? And a lot of people don't realize that we do a lot of behind the scenes work on these cases that sometimes never makes it to an episode until we have enough collected where we can create a segment for it. So we've got a ton that's been moved on these various cases behind the scenes. Nothing justifies its own episode yet, but we have enough to where we want to give what we're going to call our five-minute segment here. And so Lisa, you want to kick us off to our segment?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah. So we're going to start with a five-minute update and we're going to combine the Jody Kilgore case and the Ian Rogers case here out of our hometown in Crawfordville, Florida. And what is most important for you all to know is that we were able to meet with two members of the Walcola County Sheriff's Office, Captain Sorachi, who is the public information officer and Major Wester, who oversees all criminal investigations. And this has been a long time coming. We've texted, we've emailed, we've been over the phone with them several times. And so, and we actually even dropped in, right? We dropped in to actually ask to meet with Sheriff Miller. And instead, Captain Sorachi came out. We were able to secure some time with them. And here's what happened. So our intent there when we came in to meet with them was to continue to build a partnership with them. We didn't come in real hot and ask for all kinds of details. We want them to see us as an asset to the community. We have almost a thousand people in our Facebook group. We have like so many listeners from all over the United States and the world. And we believe that if used properly, we can be an asset to both the Jody Kilgore and the Ian Rogers case. And so that's really where we started. Now we did ask for some specifics from them, which we have asked for multiple times. We asked again for the medical report on Jody's murder. That was denied. We were told at one point that we would get it, but that the state's attorney's office said no, we could not have it. We also asked for the phone records from Ian Rogers because, you know, there is this one ping that everybody knows about. That's the only piece of information from the phone records that we are able to have. And we really feel like if we can get some of those phone records, we might be able to build a better picture and maybe find out some people that we can access and um speak to. And of course, those were denied. Now, Michael had a really great question that he asked, and this was about the Waucala County Sheriff's Office continually saying, we need the community to reach out. We just need that one missing piece. And so we asked them.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Yeah, what is that piece?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

What is the missing piece? And we did not get a definitive uh answer from them. I mean, I would have loved to hear them say, we need an eyewitness to come forward. We need, but it was just the continuation of, well, somebody knows something and somebody needs to say something. And so that's feeling kind of wishy-washy to me at this point, virtue.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

And let's not forget, too, that you know, there were several, you know, parts of that conversation where they offered to get with us at a later date, possibly even come on the show. And then we've done multiple follow-ups now with these people and they that we haven't heard from anyone. So it's kind of gone back to radio silence again. One of the things that we were really, you know you talked about positioning us as an asset for law enforcement. And we've done a lot of research around what that looks like. And it's amazing how many times that different types of media covers, specifically podcasts, that basically a long format media coverage is which is what we are, has uncovered new leads that have led to solving crimes. And we're we're hoping we're hoping we can get law enforcement to see that reality. And because the the whole the whole narrative between how media works today is just so different. I mean, I actually think the regular news at this point is fairly antiquated, and a lot more people are taking in their content the way we're delivering it. It's and it's case in point is we're seeing a lot of traction on nearly every case that we're looking at when instead of just doing like a two-minute segment that you typically see on WTXL. And so with that being said, we were we're gonna share those statistics with you, but we we actually uncovered so much information supporting this that we decided that we're gonna share it in a future episode so we can make sure we give it the adequate coverage that it needs.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yes, and just like with anyone who's involved in our cases, we invite anyone and everyone. Law enforcement is no different. Um, we did get kind of a positive when we did meet with the sheriff's office, and Captain Sorachi did seem to entertain the idea of coming on the podcast. He asked for some questions that we would ask. Now we know that these aren't going to be specific questions for Jody or for Ian's case. Moreover, you know, how can the community support what happens in a missing person's case? How does the police approach those kinds of things? So they're more open-ended questions. I haven't received a response. I've sent a text message. I haven't received a response. Um, and one thing that really stood out to me, um, Major Wester did write down one thing. And that's when we started talking about Jack Fox and the work he does on analyzing statements for deception. Now, if you'll recall, we did um give one piece of information to Jack in relation to the Jody Kilgore case, and he thought it was very interesting. And so we did say, hey, can't if you can give us more witness signed witness statements, 911 call, we can give those to Jack. Um, and he can do and you know, he can analyze those. And so that is one thing that I did see Major Wester write down, which of course I followed up with a text message, and I haven't heard anything back.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Yeah, I'm hoping at some point he definitely seemed interested. I'm hoping at some point he takes us up on it because Jack is ready to go. He's already indicated that to us.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Now let's shift over to Michael John Olson. And if you'll recall, Michael John Olson is missing out of West Palm Beach, Florida, since 1979. And we actually went to West Palm Beach. We spent a week in West Palm Beach, and there are two kind of mean things that came out of that that we have not yet had a chance to share with you. One thing is about law enforcement again. Uh, and then the other thing is about the sites. We visited several sites just to get the lay of the land and took some video, which we'll share with you as well. And so we have some key takeaways on that side as well.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Yeah, the the biggest thing that really stood out to me when we did that visit was how close the proximity was between all these locations. So we already kind of knew it was close, but looking at it from a GIS map is very different than actually seeing it there. And so we actually pulled into the dog track parking lot and just looked around. And we can see the church, the quote, overflow that existed um next to the dog track. Now, when you see the the parking lot at the dog track, now we don't know exactly how big it was, but the one the the one they have now is enormous. I can't imagine needing the church for overflow, but that could be different back in the back in the 70s. There's also with the church itself, there wasn't really a ton of parking. And so there was some parking, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't super accessible. In fact, with my big truck, there wasn't even a great place to park. So it's not like this is, you know, a massive overflow. It's just it's it seems strange to choose it. And the other thing, when it came to the house that Jim lived at at the time that we believe that he lived at, um, that is almost within walking distance of the church. And so it really brings into question why why all this, you know, shell game with the cars? Everything was right next to each other. Why not just park at Jim's house? Why not just park at the church? Why didn't everyone park in the parking lot? So this whole detail around all these different cars getting moved and dropped off and picked up, and this all happened within a mile and a half of each other. And so it's it's kind of crazy how close all this proximity was, yet there seemed to be this big requirement to shuttle cars around. Strange, it's just strange. It's a strange part of the story.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

And I think you just said the most important part story. This car shuttling information, you know, from 729 Dogwood to the church to the parking lot. This is a story that one person tells, that Jim tells. Uh and that's it. Well, there's no, there were no cameras, obviously. Then there is no verifiable proof other than we know they were all at the dog track. But nothing beyond that um has been proven as to where cars were or where they went and those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_03 9:20

We also went to the Howard Johnson Hotel. And well, and of course the Howard Johnson's not there anymore. I forgot the name of the business that was there.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

It's like a furniture store now.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

Um, we did go up to the lake as well. It's actually there, it's still very shallow, and we already know that's been searched. So we obviously wouldn't we we're not advocating that it be searched again. But, you know, again, even that wasn't all that far away. So everything was very, very close. That was the probably the furthest thing from this entire scenario. And um, yeah, I mean, so it's it was just really eye-opening. Again, like I said before, seeing it on a map versus seeing it in person is gave me a very different perspective of the proximity.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

The second thing, um, and you'll find this thread that we're discussing today, is this continued hope and desire to reach out to law enforcement. Now, do remember that we did get a very extensive FOIA on Michael John Olsen's case, and we really appreciate that from West Palm Beach. Um, when we went, I reached out to the family and they notified the lead detective, Detective Sr., that we were going to be there, even the week that we were going to be there, and requested that we were able to meet with them. They did receive an email back from Detective Sr. And we're on all these threads, so I I have seen these. This isn't hearsay. Um and Detective Senior indicated that she would be out of the office the week that we were there, but her supervisor, I believe it was Villeneuve, would be available. So I went in and I checked in and I asked to speak to both of them. Now keep in mind from the emails, we were under the impression that Detective Senior would be out, but the supervisor might be available. Um, I did hear a page go over for both of them. And actually, before we went, I did send another follow-up email. Hey, we'll be there. Here's the datum coming in. Um, so I heard a page for both of their names, and I was told that the supervisor was out of the office and Detective Senior was out in the field, which is different from what they had indicated in the email. Now I know people's schedules changes, but change, but basically they weren't available. So I asked at the desk, what should I do? And she said, just use that phone right over there and you can leave them a voicemail, which I did and indicated that I would be back. And I went back the next day and um still nothing. So that's been several weeks ago now. I did follow up with the family and let them know, and they reached out again. And I believe the term you use was radio silence.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Radio silence.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Again. So that is where we are with the Michael John Olson case as far as our attempts to connect with law enforcement and just being on the ground and just seeing the proximity. The last place we did try to go is the golf course, where he was um just had started working and is no longer a golf course, and it is a very gated community. So we took several turns around and tried to get in um through various gates, and we were not able to. So we did our due diligence to visit all of those spots and desperately tried to be able to meet with the uh well West Palm Beach Police Department, and we were unsuccessful in doing that.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

All right, so now let's talk about Cody.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Yes, and I do want to make sure that I give a shout out to uh Michelle and all of the people who are working with her to support some sort of movement in Cody's case because these are the people who have been reaching out, posting in our group, asking what's going on. So thank you, thank you for being active in our group and supporting Michelle. And we're going to talk about law enforcement again. Now, we had some positive movement from law enforcement, which we have talked about before with Detective Tadlock and how we went and left the note. And he did call, and that was probably about, I would say close to two months ago. We had a conversation, Detective Tadlock and I, around him coming on the podcast and could he um share some information? Same sort of thing we've been talking about before and inviting everyone. And he seemed pretty open to that. He did want to let me know that um Florida Department of Law Enforcement, FDLE, now leads this case. And so he would need to get the go-ahead from them before he could come on the show. And I said, I'm happy to give you questions that we would ask, much like I did with Captain Sorachi. And I sent those questions to Detective Tadlock. That's been probably a month ago. Um, and I've had I haven't heard anything back. No phone calls, no texts, no returns to our emails and um coming on the podcast or having an opportunity to answer any of those questions at all. Another thing that we do sometimes is offer the opportunity for law enforcement to just answer the questions via email, which I did as well, and we still haven't heard anything on that. Now, we did kind of take a two-pronged approach with this. Uh, I had a series of more open-ended kinds of questions that would be good for the podcast. And then Michelle, Cody's mom and I worked on some specific questions that Michelle did ask Detective Tadlock for. And after some time, he did give a response to those questions. So there has been some discussion about the picture of a truck that Cody and the two gentlemen that he was apparently with that weekend, this image of a truck coming from Calhoun County over to Liberty County. And according to Detective Tadlock, there are no pictures of this truck with the three of them coming across the bridge. We needed some clarity on some of the things that we know as far as the 911 call and these images, video of Cody at the Dollar General. And he was able to provide that clarity. And so this video of Cody at the Dollar General is in Calhoun County, so on the other side of the bridge. And that was taken on Saturday, the 22nd, at 8:45 a.m. Central Time. Something that is important to know is that one side of this bridge is central time, the other side of the bridge is Eastern time. So I'm going to very specifically call those out. Um, there was some conversation about Cody dyeing his hair, and there seems to be a belief that at the Dollar General there's an image of him and he's getting a tarp, water, some kind of box, which could be this hair dye. And so Detective Tadlock was able to confirm that Cody dyed his hair after he'd been at the Dollar General. I'm not sure how that confirmation happened.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Yeah, we're not sure how you can confirm that if you haven't seen any since then. Right. Unless there's other surveillance video that just isn't being shared. That we don't know about.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

So yes. And the final question that we really wanted some specificity on was who and um when the 911 call was made. And that 911 call was made by one of the people that Cody was reportedly with um that weekend. Remember, we are not saying their names at this time. And it was made at 6.19 Eastern time on Sunday, which makes sense because we know that the events of the story that's told about Cody stealing this truck and driving it off and these other two gentlemen following him all happened in Bristol on the Liberty County side of the bridge. So this this piece does make sense. I do find it really interesting that we know for a fact that he's seen on one side of the bridge and he's also seen on the other side of the bridge, but there's literally no picture of the truck because there were conversations. We've heard there's a picture of the truck on the bridge, there's a picture of the truck going down Main Street. None of those seem to be true. And we actually drove across that bridge. That's right. I saw cameras. I can see how maybe not every single, you know, truck or vehicle gets captured, but I find this discussion about this picture of the truck and then there not being one is something kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Yeah, and one thing too. I mean, I I know Lisa I'm probably putting you on the spot with this one, but you even reached out to a new person and um regarding getting a hold of one of these two guys that supposedly was with Cody that entire evening, and you got a response back. What was that response?

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Earlier, I was talking about how we reach out to everybody. Uh, we reach out, even those who choose not to participate. We make sure that we are giving our due diligence, pretty providing those opportunities so that someone can't turn around and say, Well, you said all these things about me, but you didn't give me a chance to speak. And you are correct. Um, through some of the staunch supporters that Michelle has on Team Cody, I was able to get a name very connected to one of the two men that Cody was reportedly with the weekend that he went missing. I reached out to that person, offered an opportunity to come on the show, um, explained what we did, said we always offer this opportunity to everybody. Could you please pass that information along? Um, and this person said, he will not be going on the show, never reach out to our family again. And that was that. So that opportunity has been there. It's been there for both of those young men in lots of different ways. Texts, Facebook, email, um, just doing our due diligence to make sure that everybody has an opportunity to tell their story.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

So, Lisa, do we have any updates on the Jonathan Haggins case?

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Yes. We were able to participate in a really cool community event, and this is important to us because we are working towards supporting our families and friends of the unsolved cases that we are working on, and we also want to build relationships and partnerships with the community. We were able to work with an organization called Sleep in Heavenly Peace. This is an organization that Joel Hagins does a lot of work in, and we are working on building a sponsorship program with them, and we were invited to come out and actually do the work. Um, we will be talking about them a lot more on an upcoming episode, but it's so important for us to take this opportunity to go and learn what they did and what they do is build beds.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Yeah, it was pretty exciting. We went out there, we didn't really know what to expect, and we met out near Timberlane. Basically, they build an assembly line. And you start at one end of the assembly line, and it's just raw lumber that's been donated by Lowe's. And then as that lumber moves down this assembly line, by the time you get through, you have the sanding, you have the cutting, you have all kinds of things. At the end, you have all the parts to assemble a bunk bed that's going to go out to someone in need in the community.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

And these beds are all built for children. So what happens is sleep in heavenly peace is connected with lots of different organizations, churches, um, law enforcement, food banks, and people request a bed or they put in a request for someone they know whose child needs a bed. And then this is all over the United States. It's it's not just local to here, and people come in and we built, what do they call? The baseboards? The footboards?

SPEAKER_03 20:35

Yeah, we were the footboards and the headboards.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Thank you. Um, and I was in charge of putting the screws in the holes, and then you were drilling them. There was like, what, 50 people there? Um, and this assembly line, they stain them, um, they brand them, and then they're set for delivery. They're not put together there because that would be challenging to finagle a full bed frame into someone's house. But that is also part of what you can do if you want to go and donate your time to sleep in heavenly peace, is go and deliver a bed. And now they get um the bed, all the pieces, they put them together in the bedroom or wherever this child's bed is going to go. They get a mattress, they get pillows and a full bedding set that also includes a handmade quilt. To learn more about sleep in heavenly peace, you can go to SHPBEDS.org.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

All right, so moving on, what you'll notice in our stories that we've told today is there's a consistent theme around law enforcement. There needs to be some significant improvement with how law enforcement communicates with these families, how it communicates with investigators, how it communicates with the community. And it clearly is lacking in most of these cases, with the exception of one.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yes, and this is the current case that we are focused on, which is Audrey Heron's disappearance. And I was able to reach out to and got an email back from Trooper Gabriel, who is currently overseeing. Uh, Audrey's case. And I want to give a special shout out to Marie who made sure that this happened and encouraged Trooper Gabriel to reach out to me. But this all happened in pretty quick succession. As I've described earlier, I invited him to come on the podcast and he indicated that he could not do that. And then I said, How about I send you some questions? You can answer them to the best of your ability through email. And within a week, I had a response. And so here's what we learned from Trooper Gabriel. I did start just by asking him how he came to law enforcement. And he has been with the Cairo Police Department in upstate New York since 2007. He later joined the New York State Police. And then in 2017, he was promoted to an investigator and assigned to the Bureau of Criminal Investigation. And as of 2024, he is the senior investigator up in the Catskill area and he covers all of Green County. I asked him how he came to Audrey's case, and he told me that he took over Audrey's case in late 2021 after another member transferred. So for the first month or so, he spent some time going through every report, document, disposition, lead, and investigative step that was previously conducted. And of course, at this point, this is there's a lot because we know Audrey went missing in 2002. So he's looking at over 20 years of documentation. He began to familiarize himself with certain facts of the case and developed leads that he thought needed another look. He did let us know that there are over 1,000 leads, which he calls investigative entries, into her case file. So that was no easy task for him to start looking at all of those leads and try to figure out where to go next. We asked him what he knows about the immediacy of any searching that happened when Audrey was reported missing. And he said in the immediate aftermath of her disappearance, the search efforts were very extensive, thorough, and detailed. He said those efforts included ground and grid searches, aviation searches, canines, scuba and boat launches, road checks, and travel outside of New York and outside of the United States. Initially, the focus was to search the area of any route of travel from the medical facility that she worked at to where her home was in Freehold. And we've shown some of those maps, and we know that Bill has talked about those routes as well. That search then extended to the routes of travel to Audrey's mother's house because we know that's where Soncia was, other friends, or anywhere else she could have possibly gone that evening. Also, waterways, lakes, ponds, and the woods were searched along those routes. In 2022, he began to re-interview family. The question we asked is Have there's anything new come up or any new pathways that you have considered? And he said, in 2022, they re-interviewed family, friends, coworkers, and acquaintances that were previously interviewed. And the those re-interviews with a particular focus from a lead in 2002 and 2016 led to the development of new information. This specific part of Audrey's disappearance is very current and ongoing, and he cannot comment further on that as that information is sensitive and confidential. So it does seem like there is something new that came out of those re-interviews, but he cannot publicly comment on that. We asked him about the barriers to trying to move this case forward. And he said the biggest barrier he's experienced is the time frame that has passed since she went missing and the lack of technology in 2002. So assuming an investigation that is over 20 years old is very difficult, I think we all have to acknowledge that some people that were previously interviewed are no longer with us. So we they cannot go back and interview them again. Members of law enforcement that have been involved in the past have retired. And of course, we just know over time, retention of information, it just declines, right? Um, in terms of the technology, we've talked about the bag phone. You know, he says cell phones were just coming along, and of course, Wi-Fi was almost non-existent in that area. Additionally, video surveillance was hard to come by, and video that was obtained lacked clarity. So today's investigations, technology, and cellular devices have been shown to be crucial in solving those types of investigations. And unfortunately, because of when this happened, those things just aren't there. So they're not able to develop a strong a footprint as we are now, to when someone does go missing more recently. And our last question was about the community. And he said the community is still very invested and interested in Audrey's disappearance, and they really want closure for her family. And he would like speaking directly to the community, he said, My message would be if you hear something or see something, please say something. Any lead or piece of information could prove helpful. He also does monitor Audrey's missing person's Facebook page, and he's often provided with information from other community posts. So he says, please continue to use social media to post any information that you might have. And he says, lastly, he'd like to add that the case has taken many turns over the years and new information has been developed. However, some of that new information, as he had indicated earlier, cannot be made public, which he knows is frustrating for the community and for her family. Now he does say Audrey's immediate family is aware of past and current investigative steps as he has been in regular contact with them since 2021. And we know that to be true because both Marie and Sancia speak very highly of Trooper Gabriel and the efforts that he has made to be a support for them and their family as they try to figure out what happened to Audrey.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

So the case hasn't been damaged at all by communicating with the family.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

No, it hasn't been damaged at all. In fact, he had an opportunity to share what he could, which he readily did. And I think that communication helps people to believe that they are doing anything and everything they can possibly do to find their loved one.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

That's good to know. And you know, it's good timing on this update as well, because we have another interview that we're about to jump right into where we talk with Jeannie Turk, and um we're gonna hear her perspective. That's um Audrey's stepmother, and the person who actually called in the missing person's report initially whenever it was determined she was missing.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Welcome to Tragedy, a true crime podcast. I'm Elisa.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

And I'm Michael.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

And today we're joined by Jeannie Turk, Audrey's stepmother. Jeannie was the person who reported Audrey missing when she did not return home. She shares her firsthand account of those early moments and her perspectives as a family member navigating the ongoing search for answers. Thank you for being with us and welcome to the show. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

Well, we're going to do to start here. Um, we've kind of started this as a you know process on our our new season, and that's to kind of play a little bit of a game, have some fun questions, and these questions are really just designed to get to know you better, how our audience get to know you better, and just before we ease into the more serious topics.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

All right. So here's your first question. Jeannie, coffee or tea? Coffee. Oh, me too. I'm in fact, I've already like set up the coffee station and filled up the water pitcher to boil the water for tomorrow morning's coffee.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Oh, yeah. Just like if there's a good cup of tea around, it's usually when I'm sick, I'll do tea and honey.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Same. That's pretty much the only time I drink. Now, I will say I am a fan of iced tea if it's sweet, but if I'm having a hot drink, I I'm I'm coffee for sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Yeah, yeah. I like um a sweet, a sweeter tea, but um coffee. I usually I do 18 ounces of coffee and four teaspoons of coffee mate and three teaspoons of sugar. She's very specific.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

She's got it all lined out.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

13 ounces, yeah. She knows what she's doing. Michael, coffee or tea?

SPEAKER_03 30:43

With me, it's tea. I mean, I drink coffee, but only when Elisa makes it, and then she puts so much stuff in it, I don't know if it's really coffee anymore. It's more of a a dessert for me. And then but sweet tea is uh how I've I got her turned on that me come me being from the south. You know, we've got to have our sweet tea. And so I I started introducing that to this Colorado girl pretty early on, and now she likes that as well.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yeah. Oh, see, I never had real genuine sweet tea. Well, you can get on down here and sugar, and he's my son, my son and grandson and granddaughter and stuff. They all live in Florida, different part. So I gotta get down there one of these times.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

It's it's different than sweetened tea, which I learned. Correct. Yep, for sure. Yeah. All right, second question. What is your favorite season and why?

SPEAKER_00 31:32

My favorite season, I would say, is fall. And it's funny because I was born in the fall. I just love the the colored skies and the you know, the wintry look, just a little bit like a cool damp blowing through your hair, but I don't let my hair blow.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

It is, um, I assume you're in upstate New York in the Catskill area, and we've been up there and the fall is like it's red. I'm from Colorado, and the trees don't turn red in Colorado, they turn like this bright, um, like gold. But when I saw the red last year when we were up there, I was really, really surprised.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yeah. And we get some gold and some red, a lot of red, you know. They really are pretty. I love the red.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

With me, it's really more like when I think of seasons, I I like all of them except for winter.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Same.

SPEAKER_03 32:24

And, you know, the reason is because my fishing schedule gets really damaged by the winter months. And so since that's always my priority when I'm outside, those other three months offer that opportunity, no matter pretty much no matter where you're at.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Oh, okay. Well, I do summer's okay as long as it's I got an air conditioner.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

True.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

In case it gets too hot.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

You know, and for me, it's spring. Um, and for me, it's I've always loved spring, spending almost my entire life in Colorado. You'd see the first crocus come up, or I'd be the weirdo who's looking for the first tree that's budding. Um, because it to me it's like I've made it through winter, but you said something really interesting that you're you're born in the fall, and fall is your favorite season. And I was born in early March, which kind of technically I know it's still winter, but that's when the spring things start to happen. And I've never actually thought about maybe there's a connection between when you're born and what your favorite season, except that doesn't work for Michael because he was born in December.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

I was born in the winter.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

That's true, but it works for you and me. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

They wouldn't blanket if it was in the winter. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

All right, and the last question is if you could spend a month anywhere in the world, don't worry about cost, where would you go and what would you do there?

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Oh my god. Um, I'd have to say I would like to be on a cruise. That's my ultimate thing because we had boats for years, and I just love boating so much because it kind of took you away from some things that maybe weren't going well in your life, you know? And that's that's mine would be a cruise. It probably oh well, just not to Alaska. We've already discussed that. I should say a warm cruise.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

At the risk of sounding predictable, I've already planned out the trip. Um, and it would be to New Zealand. It's all about fishing. So I've I've always wanted to fish the area, and it's an area of the world that just not very many people many people get the opportunity to go. So that that's definitely my bucket list item.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Well, I couldn't go on a cruise, I'd pick Greece. That's how I understand. But a lot of people do pick New Zealand. A lot of people, those boating shows and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Yeah, a lot yeah, and um match couples and stuff. All those crazy couple shows and stuff. They pick all these different countries. It's like there's nobody in America left.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Well, we're all taken. That that's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

What about you, honey? Where'd be your trip, did you say?

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Uh for me, I I hear Greece. I really do. I feel like that might be a number two for me. Number one would be um Australia. So kind of the same thing that Michael's talking about. He loves fishing, which of course I'm a fan of too, but I really would want to go for scuba diving, right? Isn't the Great Barrier Reef out away? That's correct. So for me, it would be sim similar area that you're talking about. So, Michael, how about I'll just go with snakes and heavy-duty sharks and in the water out there, and that's what scares me.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

They're very well populated with sharks and snakes and lizards and reptiles.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Well, fortunately, as a side conversation, I have the the former president of the zoology club when he was in high school here. So he knows a lot about snakes and and sharks and all that kind of stuff. That is true. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Oh, wow. Probably tamed your he tamed you down a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

He just felt like it was good. He's gonna keep us safe, yes. He probably could have gone into like marine biology or something like that. I think you just chose technology because you knew that it had an opportunity for you to make money.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

I didn't want to starve.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

A lot of people send him pictures of spiders or snakes and they'll be like, what is this? Because they know that he's really good at identifying. So it's it's pretty common practice for him. Well, that was fun, Michael. I think we learned. Thank you, Jeannie, for starting us off with that. That was that was really fun. Um, so let's talk a little bit about Audrey. And the first thing that we really want to know from you is what do you want people to know about Audrey?

SPEAKER_00 36:54

I want people to know what a good, good, beautiful person she was. She was very good, very sweet and kind. She was laughing and stuff. She'd pick out her father and she'd say, Dad, I'm a 90s woman, because I said that I took off his shoes or something when he worked all night and stuff. She said, You wouldn't see me doing that, Dad. I'm a 90s woman. So she was she she was a little feisty, but she never used it, I don't think, unless she needed it. She was just so easy going, I think. We never had a problem with her. Yeah, I think sometimes when there's been um exes in the past, sometimes and kids, the the parent who has them doesn't always encourage the relationship, let's say. And the kids would come around anyway.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

I want to respond to what you said about feisty. I I raised a daughter as well, and she has the spicy, and the the key is when to teach them when to use the spicy and when not to use the spicy. Oh yeah. And I think he gathered that good. Mm-hmm. It's it's a good characteristic to have. Can you recall um in the days and maybe even the month leading up to when Audrey vanished, did you notice anything unusual happening? Anything out of the ordinary that still sticks with you?

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Well, see, at that time for a while there, and I think it were kind of the months leading up to, I can't remember the exact months, but I know her dad had been talking to her a lot because I had gone to work at Price Job or after I got through my regular job. And um, I wouldn't get home till after 11 or later. And I know she talked to her dad quite a lot, but you know, he's he wasn't, you know, good at remembering anything. I can't say there was anything wrong. The night before she vanished, she had called us and we weren't home, and she left a message, hi mom, hi dad, um I'm just calling, I gotta work tonight or something, and I'll call you back tomorrow or something, you know. It was lighthearted and everything. So that's all I can remember about that, honey. She was all happy-go lucky and saying she was gonna get back to us the next morning.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Now we understand that you were the person who made the call to report her missing. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Yeah, I don't like everybody to know it, but I worked in a police agency. I wasn't a police officer or anything, but um I went into one of the bosses and my hand was starting to shake so bad I couldn't even dial the phone for him. It took me a couple times. I was just so upset when my husband told me. So I just ran into someone I know, one of the bosses there. Uh he took over from there. But the police, you know, they I'm totally convinced they did everything imaginable to find Audrey. They were they were out there, they didn't take it lightly.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

And so I think you're talking about maybe some of the initial searches and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Yeah. That was like the immediate. As soon as her father told me, I I said, okay, hold I'll be back. And I told him I'd call him right back, and I went into someone I knew could get things rolling, and they did. And I think he tried to call I think he tried to call Jeff too, but he had first thing he asked me, was there any problems or anything? I said, not that I know of. I heard her voice on the phone that night or early evening or whatever it was, and uh she sounded fine.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

And do you there has been some conversation about maybe her path of travel that night. Do you have a belief that she would have gone anywhere other than straight home that night?

SPEAKER_00 41:29

No, I don't believe that. I really don't believe it. At the most, and I don't think she she would, but at the most I'd say if she was out of cigarettes or something. But at that's the most I would even say.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Yeah, it seems like that route. We I mean, we've spent some time up there, and it seems like that route looks pretty straightforward and a route that she took a lot, right? She had worked at that facility for a little while. It wasn't a new job or anything like that. And no, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

He'd been there for a while.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

She said to me, sometimes nurses get burnt out and and they get a little distracted from as good as they wanna be, you know. But she said, I'm never gonna do that. I try to treat everybody right, and I believe her. She did. We had some gentleman when we were down at Earlton Campgrounds, he came over, and when he found out who we were, he came over to tell us how much his Audrey had taken care of his wife, and she just loved her, that she was heart sick first. Just I think back then it may have been several years. He said she was just heartbroke about that.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

And so were you involved in any of the searches? Do you have any recollection of kind of how those days, maybe like the week and maybe month after she disappeared, how those happened?

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Well, you know, um I stayed home for about 10 days, I think it was, because my husband felt I should be with him. And we did go, and um, there were all kinds of police searches searches, sorry, and um that even an ex her oldest girl's father, he took off from vacation and he went all over the grounds and everything up through there and stuff looking for. He took a week or two off to check for.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

Yeah, and there was it it happened to be um not just a typical night for her, but this is um the next day she was going to see Soncia, right? Because Soncia had been out of town uh with her grandparents, and so this was kind of a big Deal. I mean, as I mentioned, I also have a daughter, and she used to go on trips with my mom, her grandma too. And I I I know when she would come back, I would be really excited to see her. And so there there is this sort of weird coincidence, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:14

Oh my god, yes, because um Audrey, you know, Sancia was her baby. No mat you know, they were all their her babies, but I mean, she always felt, I think, a little more protective of her because they weren't with the father. You know what I mean? Like Jeff, her husband, he she always felt that he was maybe a little bit strict, not hitting her or anything like that. But pr you you feel especially protective, I think.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Mm-hmm. There has been some discussion, at least that we've heard, about the possibility that maybe Audrey left work and instead of deciding to go home, decided to go pick up Sancia. Um, but people have said, yeah, they don't really think that that's what happened, that she would have stayed there, spent the night, got some rest, as opposed to her picking her up like in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Right. I agree with that. But worst case scenario, very worst case scenario, I would say she'd go and get her that night. You know, I don't mean that that's a bad thing, but it's the least thing that I expect.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Yes, that that's a really good way to say it. It does enter in and, you know, some ideas of while we mentioned and there is a pretty straightforward path from one place to another, perhaps that is something she considered doing. You brought up perhaps she had run out of cigarettes and decided to just take a quick diversion to go get the cigarettes, which then changes the trajectory of any searches that need to happen. Right. Or maybe widen the scope. Or wide hand. Widen the scope of the searches, which is good, right? We don't want to just stay in one mindset.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Yeah, no, you wanna make sure you've got everything, or how are you gonna know the worst one?

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Mm-hmm. Now, there's been a lot of, at least in the beginning, a lot of coverage of Audrey's disappearance. I know there was a um an appearance they went on the Montel show, people close to Audrey. I think Crime Watch Daily did um some work and uh there's a YouTube video about that. Do you remember?

SPEAKER_03 46:24

Yeah, there's a three there's a three-part series. Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Thank you. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

I think I may have watched some that were shown on TV. I'm sure I did because I tried to record all the news that it might be on. And of course now they're gone, but I was doing that and keeping it for a while, for quite a while. So but then eventually they they kick off, you know. I think they only time let you have them for so long and then you have to renew it or whatever. I don't know. I get confused anymore sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Yeah, YouTube is so amazing because this is how we have started to learn um about the things that may have happened to Audrey, that three part the three-part series that you discussed, um, Adventures with Purpose, who have done some searches for her. They have some things on YouTube, and those things are always there, right? Those don't go away.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Right. And I saw the one about her father. Marie mentioned it, or his father the other day, where he was sitting on a lawnmower, and I did see that. I watched it several times. He just didn't seem to take, I don't know. I just would have thought he would have taken it much different than what he did.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Let me ask you this. It's been so many years, right, since this has happened. What what do you think the police need to be able to maybe figure out what happened? Is there obviously other than finding her in her vehicle, what what is missing?

SPEAKER_00 47:58

Well, I bet it for one thing, uh just not just not insufficient, just insufficient, I would say. That who knows, maybe they have an idea, but they're not gonna tell anybody because that's how things get messed up, you know? So, but I don't know that they know anybody or anything. It's just a guess that if I was doing an investigation, I wouldn't tell anybody about it because I wouldn't want them to get it let something out that shouldn't have been out.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Yeah, and that does that's what makes I think particularly missing people so challenging. We have a another a missing person that we've been um trying to support the family here in the area that we live in. It's not as old as Audrey's disappearance, it's much more recent. But sometimes we have these frustrations of gosh, if we could just get X piece of information from law enforcement, maybe we could help. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

Yeah. But then you can build on that bits and pieces and keep adjusting ideas and reading their looks and but it there's just not enough there. They'd probably say all circumstantial.

SPEAKER_02 49:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Anybody could probably prove it to be that, but I have thoughts about it, but I'm not gonna name any names because I just don't want to take the chance that I'm not right. No, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Yeah, we have in some of the um missing people that we cover, we um do what we call like theories and we'll sit down and we'll just kick around. Maybe this happened, maybe that happened, maybe this happened based on what we can find by talking to people. And sometimes we do get documents from law enforcement. That's also very, very helpful. Um, you know. And then we sort of say, oh, this is the least likely, this is the most likely, but you know, short of of finding a vehicle or or the actual person, you know, you just aren't, you may not know.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

And that's what's been challenging about this case is, you know, we've looked at the various evidence that we have, and there's there's just not a lot to consider. I mean, it's just one of those things, you know, that I'm sure this is a common theme in a lot of missing person cases, but you get into a scenario to where, okay, well, they're there and now they're not there. And then the distinction between what you know from when you last saw them and when you, you know, when you notice they were missing, there's just there's no information to connect the dots. There's no details that uh even provides a direction. Even in the search, I mean, one of the first things that we heard about, and we've heard this multiple times, is people going up and down the route, and they are finding that you know there was not even any damage to guardrails, there's not any damage to the forest around it. So they couldn't even come up with where that person would have gone off the road if that's in fact what happened.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Yeah. Uh no, I totally understand uh it's like different things that you notice, but it could or couldn't be nothing. It's like, and you can't. If you go to uh charge somebody with something, you better make sure you got a lot of inf a lot of information and uh stuff because it'd be too easy to kick it out.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

True.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Mm-hmm. Yep. Uh you can't see me, but I'm nodding my head because even another story we have, it's even named in the documents that we receive from law enforcement that you know they it says foul play suspected. And then everybody says, well then why haven't we produced an arrest? Why haven't we done a search, you know, warrant? Why haven't we done all these things? And that one's from 1979. Um, you know, and so it's just I'm sure I I guess if I were having this experience, I would there are so many emotions, but one I think would be frustration. You know, I would just be like, oh, the same thing over and over again.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Yeah. There is, you know, there was a comment about our phone, but the phone service isn't good in Green County. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

So you've talked a little bit about the cell phone. Now we have to remind people that this is 2002. So we're not able to get cell phone records in the way that we can now. And you're also describing hit or miss. And we've have what we might have to, I think they've been called bag phones. So, you know, people will say, Well, why don't you just get the cell phone records? It's a little, it's very different in her situation. I guess it is. Right? We have our location on all the time. In fact, we have an app where I can tell where my daughter is. I just launched the app and so I know where she is all the time. But mm this is not 2002, so it's very, very different.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

Yeah, you're gonna see that a lot in the future. I know the kids have a cell phone, but when they're not with them, or when they are when the kids are with them, they have it on them. Okay. But if they're home, they don't they don't have to look to see where they are, you know. I'm not explaining myself well at all.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

No, you're okay. You're totally fine. Let me ask you um a different question. So it's been several years since Audrey has vanished, but we'd like for you to explain the impact that her disappearance uh still has on your family.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Oh, there's I don't think there's any time that goes by that somehow there isn't I've been it's terrible, but I've been calling one of the grandkids that lives with me uh Audrey. And her name is London. And I keep uh saying Audrey. It's it's popped up, but I don't know. I just keep wanting to call her Audrey. And it's just it's just that kind of an effect on you. It really is, it takes a toll on you, and I just love the little shit. She was such a sweetheart. I frosted her hair one time, and she it was long and thick, and she didn't want me to like pull it through. I said, Well, okay, I'll frost it anyway. So I didn't pull it through. I took and I got the hair real wet, and then I twisted it in a little circle and just laid it down. And when she got done, she said she was so happy with it, I just kept twisting it around and laying it down gently so that it didn't seep into the other hairs, you know? But she really liked it. That's such a sweet memory.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Thank you for sharing that with us.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

Oh, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

And is there anything that we did not give you a chance to say that you wanted to say?

SPEAKER_00 54:57

Oh, there's so many things you'd want to say. You just beg the person that did something with her or knows what was done with her to please put our minds, it'll never put our minds at ease. We'll always feel cheated and always feel robbed of the poor kid, you know? But I just please, please, somebody let us know what happened to her.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

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