SPEAKER_00 0:00

In Tragedy, a true crime podcast, we discuss missing persons' cases, violent crime, and other sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Our show is a place where every story matters and every voice deserves to be heard. To support this podcast, you can subscribe at www.tragedy a true crime podcast.com for early access to new episodes. And join our Facebook community, Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast, for updates, discussions, and ways to support the families we feature. Welcome to Tragedy, a True Crime Podcast. I'm Elisa.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

And I'm Michael.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

And before we continue learning about Audrey, we do have some small updates that we want to give you on some of the work that we've been doing, more behind the scenes work. We did spend some time in West Palm Beach, as you all know, and we have not done too many updates with that because we are still waiting to hear back from law enforcement.

SPEAKER_04 1:07

Well, let's be clear for a second. This is the Michael John Olson case.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yes, thank you for that clarity. We spent some time in West Palm Beach and we visited some of the sites associated with Michael John Olson's time there, particularly around the weekend that he went missing. And we did reach out to the detective who leads the case and her supervisor when we were there. Neither one was available. So we've sent an email. We're working with the family to see if we can get more information on where they are. The last we knew they were continuing to work on potentially looking deeper into a person of interest. So until we hear more on that, we'll kind of hold here, but um we are working on that one in the background. We also spent some time in Bristol, and this is Cody Haney. And you all know we uh drove on over there, we spent some time, we met his mom, Michelle, which was great. We're kind of in the same place with this one that we are with Michael John Olson, with the exception that we have heard from the lead detective, which is really great. Um we left a note on the sheriff's office door because they were not open the weekend that we were there. Um, but I did hear back from Detective Tadlock, and we have sent some questions to him. He did indicate that FDLE, Florida Department of Law Enforcement, does lead this case right now. And so he is communicating with them to see if maybe we can get some time in front of them to go over some of our questions and to support some resolution towards finding out what happened to Cody Haney. And then lastly, along the same lines, we've spent a lot of time communicating with or attempting to communicate with law enforcement. So here in Walcala County, we did go over to the sheriff's office. We didn't make an appointment or anything, and so it was really great to be able to talk to um detective Surachi. He came out and spoke with us for maybe 10 or 15 or 20 minutes. He is working to find some time for us to get um maybe in front of the lead detective on um Jody's case, who also happens to be the supervisor of the person who leads Ian's case. So this would be really great.

SPEAKER_04 3:17

Yeah, hopefully we can get a twofer on this one.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yes, that would be good. Um but it was nice to be able to um go over to the sheriff's office and meet some of the faces that we have been talking about for a while. And they've been um obviously busy with a lot of things. There seem to be quite a few missing people in this area. There was something this weekend that happened, and so we we look forward to speaking with them um hopefully here in the next seven to ten days. As we continue learning about Audrey and her disappearance, we'd like to welcome Maria Hadley to the show. Maria met Audrey at a mutual friend's bridal shower shortly before she went missing. Thank you for being here and welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

So before we um talk about Audrey and we learn about Audrey, please tell us a little bit about you.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

What would you like to know? I'm kind of boring. I I am a um dining service services supervisor. I work at a retirement community. Um I'm an avid collector of antiques, a lover of history, and somewhat of a computer geek.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

All right. Yeah, that's kind of a really eclectic mix. Yeah, I really like it. So I just when I introduced you, um, I said that you had met Audrey at a mutual friend's bridal shower, and I know it goes a little deeper than that. So tell us about how you met Audrey and your relationship with her.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

So that's a hard one because we met through my friend Marie, Marie Parker. Um, Marie was getting married. Audrey was one of her bridesmaids, as was I. And the first time I met her was at Marie's bridal shower at the golf course that her Audrey's husband family owned. Um, and that was the first time I met her. And so I only knew her about maybe four months before she vanished.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

And I mean, I've been in a few bridal parties, and it's sort of like you meet these girls and you don't really know them, and then you're immersed with them for like three or four days, right? Everybody gets changed in front of each other, you get your hair done, you get your nails done. And so it's this really quick like touch that you have with people that you don't really know, but it's really, really serious because you're there in support of your friend, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah, well, it was more than three or four days because her bridal shower, I think, took place in um I want to say May, April or May, and we had it at the golf course. And at the time, I knew a lot of the people there, didn't really know Audrey. Uh and Audrey was being a bad girl and she was smoking. So apparently I was a smoker at the time, and Audrey was not supposed to be smoking. So we were the only two, like, aside from Marie, that were. And I remember her telling me at the time that her husband didn't like her smoking, but she didn't care anymore. She had this very flippant, like, for lack of a better word, screw him attitude. Like, I've had enough and I'm doing what I want. And at the time I was seeing someone who was very jealous and overbearing. And so I identified with that and we spoke about it. And I think that was our like click, you know, the thing that she identified with, with me, and I wasn't living in New York, I was living in New Jersey, so there was no uh facade that she had to put on for me. She felt like she could talk to me, I think, because she identified like with the same things that I was going through. So we clicked instantly.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

And did you continue that relationship with her on some level after all the festivities around the wedding ceremony?

SPEAKER_01 7:40

No, no, no. We were there the whole day for the bridal shower. The bridal shower was probably four or five hours long, and and during the bridal shower, we were talking and we were swapping stories. I distinctly remember one of the stories, which it's kind of odd, but it is what it is. Um, I don't even know a good way to say this, but like it stands out in my memory, and it was something that she said to me regarding the fact that you know, her husband's idea of being romantic was walking up behind her when she was washing the dishes and and saying something to the effect of, hey, you want to go F. I'm not gonna say the F word, and her saying, you know, that's not romantic. Like, I'm I'm here washing dishes, taking care of kids, and you're walking up behind me, like, hey, do you want to go F? You know, so it was like this this whole conversation that we had, where I think that she didn't have to project or portray this image that she had for other people of perfect life, perfect wife, because we were both swapping stories. And it was like an instant connection. At that particular time, her hair was all the way down to her butt. I remember she had this incredibly long hair and it was all the way down to her butt, and she was telling me at that time that she was gonna cut all her hair off just to piss him off.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Oh wow. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Mm-hmm. And she did. By the next time I saw her, which was like the wedding rehearsal, which was at a different restaurant. So the bridal shower was at the golf course that her husband's family owned, and her bridal shower was at a restaurant. I don't, I think it was Pegasus, but I'm not positive. Um, not that it really matters. But she had cut her hair all the way up to like her ears at a bop.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Mm-hmm. So that's like a change. That's not necessarily a behavioral change, but that's like an unusual change that someone would make, and then you wonder why. Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Well, it was like um almost like staking your claim, like saying, no, this is me, get used to it. I I'm going to be who I am. I remember her saying that he was a fanatic about her long hair. And she was gonna cut her hair on purpose because he liked her hair long, she was gonna cut it short. I distinctly remember that. Almost like a rebellion.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah. And do you recall any other conversations like what you're describing? Um there was a wedding, so I you guys were able to get together again.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

So when we had the bridal shower, she had these pants on. And again, we had swap stories about jealousy and possessiveness and ridiculous behavior. Like on my boyfriend at the times part, and she was talking about Jeff. And so she felt comfortable, I think, talking to me because I wasn't living up there, I wasn't in the friend circle. It wasn't like I could well, I was in the friend circle, but it wasn't like I would be there to spread like the rumors kind of thing. She didn't have to hide what was happening or who she was. And um at the rehearsal party, she had these pants on, they were like palazzo pants, and they were sheer, and they had an underlining that was black, and like an overlining that was like a black sheer material. And she was talking about how angry he was that she had worn them when she had cut her hair, because at this point her hair was up to her ears. She had this this little page cut, like Bob kind of thing. And she was out on the front steps of the restaurant. I was out on the front steps of the restaurant, and we were both smoking, being bad girls, because he was angry. He didn't want her smoking. This was like a month later, two months later, whenever it was. And she was talking about how angry he was that she was wearing these pants. And I distinctly remember her turning around and flipping the pants up so her butt was hanging out and saying, like, you know, screw you, Jeff, you know, I don't care if you like it or not. You know, she was being rebellious.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Do you know if she did this other times or was this unique to you and her relationship?

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Well, it's funny because after she disappeared, and Marie called me, I said to Marie, Well, you know, things weren't good, they were having issues. And Marie said, What are you talking about? And I said, Wait a minute. Like, you don't know? And Marie said, I have no idea what you're talking about. Like, as far as I know, everything was perfect. And that's when I realized that she was probably spilling to me because she could. She didn't have like this identity to hold up to people, that everything was great. I mean, I didn't realize it at the time either. I had no idea that they were like building a new home and moving into a new home and everything was supposed to be perfect. I assumed that everyone knew exactly what I knew. When I told Marie, hey, you know, this happened, this happened, that, you know, she said, What are you talking about? She had no idea that there was any issues at all whatsoever. So I think she was talking to me because I was going through something similar. I was dealing with jealousy and and and ridiculousness, and she felt comfortable. Sometimes you identify with somebody who understands your situation, and you don't want to tell somebody else who has like the perfect marriage or everything is happy, you know.

SPEAKER_04 14:10

It's interesting to me that no one around you noticed this.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

I don't think she told anyone.

SPEAKER_04 14:14

Well, even just like some of her behavior, like the any comments around her haircut, and like no one saw her.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

They did notice the hair. Okay. They did notice the hair. Everyone was shocked when she cut her hair. That everyone was shocked by.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

But no one else witnessed the behavior you're talking about. It was just around you.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

No, I'm not gonna say that because during the actual wedding, after the wedding, when we had the reception, there was some, you know, like eyebrows raised because you know, you get up and you do the first dance kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

And as a bridesmaid, you have to dance with your prospective or respective groom's person. And she was having an issue because Jeff was not happy with the fact that she had to get up and dance with, you know, the the person that was in the wedding party, and that I had to get up and dance with the person that was in the wedding party for me. Michael was giving me a hard time, who's my ex. And her husband was giving her a hard time, and other people did notice that. So but that was all kind of talked about afterwards, not at the time. You know, you're at a wedding, it's not like you're gonna be like, hey, just see what happened, you know. It was it was in hindsight, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

So tell us um about the circumstances around her disappearance.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

So I found out the day of oh, the circumstances of her disappearance, I wasn't there. So obviously I I don't know. I only know what I was told. Okay. Um I remember Marie calling me, and I think I want to say it was the day after. I don't know if it was the day of. It may have been the day of, I'm not positive, but I remember Marie calling me, and she was very, very, very upset, and she wanted to know if there was anything I could do. Because Marie doesn't really understand anything IT or computer, but she knew that I did, so she thought that maybe I could find something out, and I had to tell her, hey, listen, there's only so much I can do. You know, this is very early in the days of cell phones. It's not like you can like go online and track a cell phone or but she wanted to know, you know, is there anything you can do? Can you look anything up? There wasn't much I could do in the beginning. There really wasn't. She she got me involved. She called me up. Hey, this is what happened. Um, what do you think we can do? And I said, Well, we need to get a hold of her VIN number. We need to fax her VIN number to every Jeep dealer, you know, uh parts place, because Jeeps are kind of specialized. Everyone is always looking for Jeep parts and vintage Jeep, you know, people love that. So we got her VIN number and I faxed it everywhere that I could think of. Because back then faxes were still in wide use. Any any place in the United States that I could find that dealt in Jeep Parts or Jeeps, period, I faxed her VIN number for two, rather. Um also uh I faxed every hospital um like within a four-state area, every um mental illness facility, every homeless shelter. I made like a flyer and I faxed them everywhere. Anything that I could think of, uh police stations, just sent her information out everywhere that I could think of, basically. And it kind of grew from there.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

So I don't know if it doesn't seem like, unless I'm getting it incorrectly, that you weren't necessarily local to where this happened. So did you hear anybody talk about anything like unusual or odd that happened in like the days and weeks leading up to her disappearance?

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Anything that I would have heard would have been hearsay. It would have been like second party. I did hear a lot. I heard a lot from Marie. I heard a lot from Audrey's father. Um, I heard a lot from her friends. I actually drove to New York. Um, I remember meeting with Karina at her house and Marie and another friend, Dawn. Um, I did drive up to New York. I went out on the searches with them. We organized searches, we did grid searches. Um I was involved in a lot of that, kind of spearheaded it and like figured out, you know, the route home, where should we search, try to recruit people. Um, and I did hear things when that was happening. Um but any firsthand knowledge? No. No, I mean I I heard from Audrey's dad, I did talk to her father. He did tell me that he saw her purse at the house the morning she disappeared. So apparently, the morning Audrey disappeared, uh when people were finally notified, which happened apparently later in the morning, not early, they all gathered at Audrey's house. And Ray, her dad, swore that he saw her purse there, which we all thought was very strange because Audrey was a smoker. She wasn't supposed to be smoking, but she was a smoker. And any woman who's going to work for a 3 to 11 shift at a long-term care facility is going to be carrying a purse. A. B, if you're a smoker, your cigarettes are going to be in your purse. And Ray swore he saw her purse at that house. How did her purse get there and she wasn't there? So that was a big thing.

SPEAKER_04 20:33

I want to go back for a second when you start talking about organizing these searches. Um outside of the route, um, how were you determining where to search and how you prioritize those things?

SPEAKER_01 20:43

The route from where she disappeared to where she gets home, you know, from from there to her house, from where she worked to her house, is pretty straightforward. It wouldn't be, you know, there weren't a thousand ways to get there. It's pretty much a straight shot. So we were going along the lines of the route she normally traveled. You wouldn't travel a different way unless there was, you know, a crash that closed down roads or a flood, or there would be no reason. And and the night that it happened, it was from what I understand, there was light rain, but nothing that would close down a road. And there were no reports of any trees down or car accidents or anything like that. We checked all of that. So we went with the route she would normally take.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

All right. And now and now I want to go back to the purse. So you we said we have someone who who who saw the purse again?

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Her father told me he saw it at the house. That he saw it on the counter.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

And but we don't have it now.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Nobody does now. And there were other things too. There were other things that people talked about, like the The fact that supposedly she was giving away baby clothes and they were in the back of her car. That came up later. There was something about a spare tire that should have been the back of the Jeep, but was actually in the garage. Never really got any kind of confirmation on that. But supposedly this spare tire should have been in the Jeep, but was found in the garage, which makes no sense. Someone said that she was supposed to meet somebody to give them the kids' clothes that they had grown out of. But when the police supposedly spoke to Jeff, he never mentioned that. I don't know. It's kind of weird.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

That is strange, and I assume we don't know at this point who that if she was gonna meet with someone, we don't know who that was.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

No, never heard that. There were a lot of things that were said. It was very strange. The whole thing is strange. It it none of it makes any sense at all. There was, I think it 12 miles from where she worked to home. And oh, that's another thing too, I should probably mention. So it was a well-known fact, and Audrey even spoke of this herself. Whenever she was anywhere, for instance, when we were at the golf course for the bridal shower, Jeff called her probably four times. He was constantly calling, constantly checking in. And this was normal behavior, I found out later. You know, the kind of annoying calls that, hey, what are you doing? Where are you? Like, you know exactly where I am, why are you calling me, kind of thing. Apparently, that was normal for him. And the night she disappeared and she didn't get home, he never bothered to call or look for her or wonder where she was. And he was home sleeping and it was no big deal. That's not that's not normal behavior. If you were constantly checking in on somebody and then all of a sudden you're not checking, I don't know. Strikes me as not normal.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

So she did have a cell phone. I have to kind of think back as to what 2002 looked like and what I think.

SPEAKER_04 24:25

Yeah, we had cell phones, but it wasn't it wasn't the cool stuff we have now. Cell breaks. It's um a little bit large. I remember I meant that they nicknamed these called but they called them bag phones. I remember these.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Kind of, yeah. I mean, we're a little bit past the bag phone, pretty much still at the bag phone stage, because I remember having like a bag phone in I don't know, 94 or something, 95, but yeah, it was kind of along those lines. And apparently it couldn't be tracked or traced.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

So the last time she's seen is when she left work and it was 11 p.m. and that's her normal shift.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Yes. Um, so apparently, according to what everyone says, she had gotten a raise. She called home that night, she told him that she got a raise. Who knows what the conversation was? Um, but she didn't say, Hey, I have to stay late or anything like that because she wasn't. And she left at 11 o'clock. And and then nothing.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

Do we have any proof she left at 11?

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Oh yeah, they have proof. They know that they know that she worked a certain shift and left. Yeah, she didn't work overtime. As a matter of fact, there was a co-worker who said that she was following her. And I don't know if that was disproven later. I I'm not sure. I I think it was someone said that they had followed her to Ross Ruland Road or something like that, and then turned off. But then I heard later that the woman who stated that said that she was just trying to help and she didn't actually follow her. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 26:01

That's interesting. I don't understand how being dishonest helps anybody.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

No, it doesn't help anybody. Not really. I yeah, but we we we have tried to get clear answers and and never really gotten them.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

So And her typical pattern was just to drive straight home.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yes, yes. And and even more than that, the fact that her daughter, Sancia, was coming home from Florida. Her daughter had been away with her mom, and her daughter was coming home. So her daughter was due to return the next morning. Audrey was supposed to pick her up the next morning, her oldest daughter. So a lot of people thought, hey, maybe she went to her mom's house to pick Sonia up. But that that wasn't the case, obviously. It it it blows the mind how a person can just vanish from point A to point B and it's only 12 miles. It doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_04 27:06

Yeah, that's one thing that's been fascinating to us when we've gotten into this, is because you know, we we have one that we are working on that the distance is a mile and a half. And we know we know when they left and they never arrived where they were supposed to be, and that's been since 1979.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

That blows the mind. That's it, it's it's you lose things, you lose keys, you lose your glasses, you might even lose your phone, but how do you lose people?

SPEAKER_00 27:37

How cars, people and cars.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

An entire car, and not only that, but if the car is full of baby items and something happened that wasn't supposed to happen, let's say that it's uh you know, a crime of circumstance, wouldn't there be something? Something on the road? Anything? No purse, no ID, no clothes, nothing, no car. I'm sorry, but if a crime just happens out of the blue, there's something. And there was nothing. There were no um skid marks on the road, there were no uh guardrails that were damaged, there were no trees or bushes that a car could have crashed through. I don't know if you're familiar with that area of upstate New York, but I'm very familiar of it you know with it. And the brush on the side of the roads is so thick that if a car went off the road, you would see where it entered.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

It would leave like a scar.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Sure, in the trees in the brush. There's no way that that could happen without some sign of it, and we literally had I would say maybe 80, 100 people, and we walked those roads and we walked into the woods, and there were no signs. It's just not possible. It's not possible, it's not possible that her car went off the road.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Is it a heavily traveled road? I mean, I know it's 11 o'clock at night, but it's still summer.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

That road is not heavily traveled at 11 o'clock at night. That's the country. It's a bypass, so there's two roads going one way and two roads going the other way. There are guardrails on both sides. If someone goes off that road, you are going to see damage to a guardrail, you're going to see damage to the trees or the underbrush. And there are not a lot of people. If somebody gets into an accident, it would be obvious. So all of the theories about her going off the road or into a pond or into a lake. I I don't I don't see how that could be possible. Not knowing those roads the way I do.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

And sometimes people talk about, oh, someone got disoriented and they made a wrong turn and they ended up in a place, but it sounds like this is not a new drive for her.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

So that would be quite unusual. Oh, that would be very unusual.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

No.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

She was young, she was healthy, there would be no reason for her to be disoriented in any way. She had just gotten out of work. It's 11 o'clock at night. And I don't care what anyone says. I I can't recall every single conversation I had with her, obviously, word for word at this point. But I had enough conversations with her about jealousy and you know being, you know, spot on watching every single thing you're doing. From what she told me, there is no way that she did not show up at home from her job at that time of night and not have Jeff wonder where she was. There's absolutely no way. I don't care what anyone says. There is no way that he would have just been home sleeping and woke up the next morning and and called. Like, no. No. The conversations I had with her, he was the kind of man who would have been awake until she got there.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

It's just Are there other people at the house?

SPEAKER_01 31:41

I know the her child her two youngest children were home. Her oldest daughter was with her mom.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Right, she was out of town.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Right, and the only ones home were the two youngest ones, and they were so young that they could have been home sleeping and who knows.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

But we don't have like a 12-year-old or a 13-year-old who would be like, hey, dad wasn't here for a while.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Or would have heard anything or seen anything. And and the fact that it took so long for him to even tell anyone she was missing. And we all heard, and I believe it was verified, but don't quote me, that he called his father at three o'clock in the morning. So your wife's not home at 3 o'clock in the morning. You're not calling her job, but you're calling your father. For what? To ask him if he's seen your wife? Come on. So you call your dad at 3 o'clock in the morning for who knows what reason. I have no idea. But you don't report your wife missing until after 10 a.m. the next day? And you're jealous and you're always wondering where she is? Come on.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

Am I crazy?

SPEAKER_00 33:04

No. I mean, that's a we think a lot about, and you've heard us already do it, like people's behavior, changes in behavior, behavior outside the routine. And what it sounds like you're describing is a change in behavior as not following up all the time, not calling and checking. Well, if that's what he's always doing, and this happens to be the night he doesn't do it, and it happens to be the night she disappears, well, that might be significant. Exactly. Don't get me.

SPEAKER_04 33:35

I'm still thinking that three o'clock in the morning, you know, even if his wife wasn't missing at this point. Um, if I'm calling someone at three o'clock in the morning and waking them up, it's gonna be really important that I'm doing that.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Right.

SPEAKER_04 33:46

So the contents of that conversation all by itself is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Apparently, um no one knows what the contents were. And now I can't say this for a fact, but I have heard this numerous times, and I think I even saw it reported in the news once, maybe on one of the TV episodes they did, uh his father's wife, who happens to be Jeff's stepmother. I don't remember where I heard this reported. Maybe you could research it and find out, said that she didn't remember anything because she had taken too much sleeping medication that night. Uh, hello?

SPEAKER_00 34:30

See, and I would want to know, do you always take sleeping medication? Is that normal? Or did you just happen to take it that night?

SPEAKER_01 34:36

I just oh, I don't know anything about that phone call. I was asleep. So yeah, I I agree with you. There were there are a lot of little strange things and a lot of large strange things for that matter, um, with this case. All I know is there is absolutely no way that woman left of her own accord. Absolutely no way. There's no way she was like the perfect mother. She, I remember her walking around the baby shower with a baby in her arms, you know, on one arm and doing stuff with the other, and like her kids were everything to her. There's no way, there's no way, and even in the short period of time, like the way she talked about her children, there is no way that she left without her children of her own accord. And I'm sorry, I don't know Jeff. I met him, you know, twice briefly, but I do know that the whole time we were doing everything we did after Audrey vanished, he was never there. We did multiple fundraisers, pig roasts, searches, charity auctions, candlelight vigils. I was the one who created and ran the whole website. We did not have a peep from him. Nothing. If you care about your wife, where are you? What are you doing? He participated in nothing. How do you explain that? And don't tell me it's because you don't want your face in the news. That is not good enough for me. There were no news agencies at a lot of these things. We were we were begging for media, you know, coverage. Nothing. Nothing. You care? Where are you? What are you doing? You would be the person most likely to get coverage from the news, and you're not saying a word. Why?

SPEAKER_04 36:51

Did he ever try to explain that?

SPEAKER_01 36:54

No. No, he did not. Apparently, we found out later on because the Montel Williams show finally got back after like much begging on our parts. I remember emailing everybody and their brother because I was like the media contact. I was the person who did all the emails, everything like that. Um, and we finally got Montel and Marie and Karina went on the Montel Williams show. We found out at that time that Montel Williams had contacted Jeff early on in the investigation to have him on the show and he refused. Why would you refuse? If you don't know where your wife is and you want to know, why won't you go on TV and scream to the end of the earth, hey, I want to find her.

SPEAKER_04 37:41

I'm not asking a lot right here because this, I'll be honest with you, uh, Maria, this is blowing my mind.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Well, that's that's I mean, there's so much more. There's probably things that I I'm not even remembering. You have to remember this happened what we're talking about 24 years ago going on. You know, I mean, not one bike run did he ever come to, not one pig roast, not one fundraiser, not one candle vigil, nothing. And it wasn't like we were all standing there pointing a finger at him. We weren't. None of us were. As a matter of fact, in the beginning, Marie went straight to the house and was more than compassionate. She was worried about him. It wasn't until time went on that Marie started to like raise an eyebrow. And and after Marie and I spoke and I told her about some of the things Audrey said, she had no idea. She had no idea. She thought their marriage was perfect. None. And Marie was actually kind of angry about it. You know, why was she talking to you and not me? And I said, Well, Marie, you had a great marriage. She had a great marriage, or so you thought. You know, it was um the Stepford Wives community. I wasn't pretending anything, I was sitting there going, Yeah, you know, the guy I'm with is a total jerk. I can't wait to get rid of him. So she felt comfortable being honest. And that's just normal human behavior. You know, I don't I don't think Marie even suspected anything about Jeff until she started to hear these stories from other people. And and in hindsight, I remember her saying to me, you know, that's odd, but now that I think about it, Jeff really wouldn't let her take the kids anywhere. Like Jeff, his kids, let me correct that. So Sancia was Audrey's from a previous relationship, and the other two children were Audrey's and Jeff's. And if Audrey wanted to take Jeff's kids and her kids anywhere, she had to like get permission from him. And he had to be there. Like if she had to go anywhere, he would stay home with the kids. So it was very, it was strange, very strange. But nobody really put those things together until after everything happened.

SPEAKER_03 40:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

You know, you want you you have, you know, this image to uphold. You don't want to let other people know, like when everybody is perfect, that you're the imperfect one.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

What do you think it would take, or what are some missing pieces that might move this case to some sort of resolution?

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Jeff never finished a lie detector test. Not that that really means anything because they're neither here nor there, but the fact that he was in there and he was pulled out by his father, that's kind of telling to me. It's really more of an investigative technique than anything else. But if you're innocent, why is your father coming to pull you out of it? Um, I would love to know what the private investigator found because he apparently had a file that he sent to the prosecutor. Um I know that his name is Gus, and Gus did tell me that he found um evidence of something the size and shape of a car under the ground with metal detecting radar at the golf course. And when Gus went there to the golf course to discreetly investigate and they found out who he was, they threw him out. Um, I would love to see what Gus uncovered, but he didn't want to do that because he didn't want to jeopardize the investigation. Um, I would love to read that file. I would love to see that file. I wish he would release it. I even asked him to, but he won't. He sent it directly to law enforcement. Um, I would love to know why they haven't investigated Jeff more thoroughly. From what I understand, they stayed at his house for quite some time. And because they thought it might be like a kidnapping ransom thing and they wanted to be there to man the phones or whatever, or who knows, maybe it was just an investigative technique so they could stay there and gather evidence. But to be perfectly honest with you, if whatever happened to her happened to her in her car, there would have been no evidence in the in the house anyway. Um I know that Audrey had left him once before. Audrey and him had broken up and she had moved out, and she was self-sufficient. She would have had no problem doing it again. Um I would love to know more about the phone calls that took place that night. And I would love to know more about the whole Russian mafia connection myself. Apparently that was investigated and they knew about it, and they even admitted it, but it hasn't gone anywhere. I I I think I honestly believe that we're never gonna find out what happened to her. I think that what happened to her was done so well. I mean, if if the crime occurred within the confines of her car and her car was just taken away, there is no evidence.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Literally, and they they actually did catch up with him, and I don't remember if it was Crime Watch or whatever show it was on TV. I'm sure you guys have found it by this point and watched it. But they caught up with Jeff's father, and they got him like in a little bit of an interview on his lawnmower. And have you Watch that?

SPEAKER_00 44:01

No, I have not.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

You have to look it up. I think it was Crime Watch Daily. I'm not even sure. But there's a part where the investigative reporter goes up to him and he's on his lawnmower, and now no one in that family ever agreed to being interviewed. And when they interviewed him, they caught him like off the cuff. And he laughed and made a comment about how someone must have put her jeep in the back of a tractor trailer and truck and trucked it away. And I'm thinking, this was your daughter-in-law, the mother of your grandchildren, and you're laughing. You need to watch the interview. Let's just put it that way.

SPEAKER_04 44:46

Oh, we're definitely gonna watch the interview.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

You need to. You really need to. I would love for someone to gather everything there is to gather. I I'm sorry. But if if her husband had nothing to do with it, why doesn't he come out and talk to anybody? Why doesn't he say, hey, how dare anyone accuse me? This is what happened. This is everything that happened. I'll willingly go for a lie detector test. Here's my phone records. Anything. No, it just shut the door in your face and and that's it. And and then you have his father laughing at a lawnmower about her be her car being packed up in a tractor trailer and taken away. I don't know. I just it's beyond me.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Yes, there are some similarities between what you're describing and some experiences we have had with some of the other stories that we have covered, where the person that you would think would be the most vocal and want to solve whatever happened to their loved one is the person who is not speaking and actively getting in the way of other people speaking. You know, and so as you're telling this story, unfortunately, this sounds extremely familiar to us.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Have you spoken to Maria?

SPEAKER_00 46:11

Uh not officially, but we are.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Okay, so now you can ask her about this, but from what I remember, and I have this like from a good source, Sancia was supposed to go back home to Audrey's the day Audrey vanished. Sancia lived with Jeff and Audrey. Sancia was Audrey's oldest daughter from a previous marriage. Sancia had gone to Florida with Audrey's mom and was returning. Now, Sancia lived with Audrey and Jeff. Audrey vanishes. The day Audrey vanishes, Sancia goes back to live with her father. Now, if you think your wife is coming home and your stepdaughter lives in that home with you, are you going to send her to her father's house? Are you gonna bring her home and hope her mother returns? And and don't tell me about you know custody battles or court cases or legalities. This is like the first 24 hours that she's vanished. And you're not letting her come home to her bed in her room. You're sending her, packing her off to live with her father. If that was my daughter and she lived with me and I vanished for whatever reason, and my husband expected me to come home, and he sent her packing to her father's house, I would kill him. So if Jeff thought Audrey was coming home, why did he pack up her daughter and ship her off so fast? Am I crazy?

SPEAKER_04 48:06

No. No, you're not. I mean, I mean, that happened within 24 hours.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

You lost your mom and now you lost your home. Now you lost your brothers and your sister, your brother and your sister. It's all gone.

SPEAKER_03 48:20

Wow. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Yeah, I that doesn't sync with me. It doesn't sit with it doesn't sit well with me. It doesn't sit well with me that I heard Jeff told them the spare tire was in the Jeep and it was in the garage. I heard Jeff never told them about the baby clothes in the car, and my mind wanders were the baby clothes in the car because she was leaving you? Is that why you didn't tell anybody? Did she tell other people the baby clothes were in the car because she was giving them away because she didn't want to tell people she was leaving you? Did she call you up that night when she got a raise to say, okay, I just got a raise, and guess what? I'm done. I'm leaving. I'm coming home to get the kids.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

Like maybe she'd been slowly transporting things to a different location.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Right. Why were the baby clothes in the car? And then we found out she had a doctor's appointment that she was supposed to be at and never made it to because she vanished. And what was the doctor's appointment for? Some people speculated she was pregnant. Nobody knows. Those things aren't being talked about. But how do you make a human being with energy disappear? In 12 miles with no traces. Nothing. Not even a McDonald's rapper thrown out of the car. Like nothing.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

Mm-hmm. And the unfortunate reality is we have covered uh five stories of people whose cases are unsolved. And what you were just describing is happened in at least three of that we have where we it just whoo whoosh.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

Yeah, well, well, we got involved in this. We started getting involved with uh the Center for Missing People persons in Albany, New York. Um, we got involved with uh Q. Um, we got we would go every year to like the meetings they had. Um, and one of the things I remember doing with Marie is we were doing like this Candlelight Vigil where we had people from all over the country send candles in for this Candel A Vigil because when we launched the website, we worked a lot on different events to draw attraction. And one of the things I remember doing for this Candle A Vigil was I set up this whole huge, almost like the the candle stands that you see in churches with the individual candles, and I did this huge display of just all the missing children in the state of New York. When I realized how many people are missing, how many children are missing, it blows the mind. It blows the mind. It is it is hard to fathom. And I I like printed out every face and put it behind the candles, behind the votas, and this whole huge setup to see all of those faces of all those little children that just vanished. Never mind the the adults, you know, the kids hurt more. But I had Google News alerts set, like from the day Audrey vanished. I did Google news alerts for bodies found, remains found, um unidentified people, you know, in mental institutions. And every morning I would get up and sit on the computer for three or four hours and just comb through every single one of them. It got to the point where it was unhealthy and obsessive because I couldn't stand the fact that there was no answer. There was no answer. How is there no answer? And still, no answer.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Yeah, and we are just getting to scratch the surface of what you are describing. I have joined now recently since we've started our work and this podcast, several Facebook groups about either like map the missing or specific to people who are missing. And and every day someone sends me another one. You should join this group. Here's it, and it is, I mean, you know, we're several years behind this experience that you are having, but I'm understanding what you're saying, right?

SPEAKER_01 53:04

There's Q, there's Namus, there's CODIS. Um like uh one of the first things I did when they launched it was you could have your DNA profile done and you could uh upload your raw DNA to uh JEDMatch, which is uh a DNA profiling system that police enforcement uses for reverse genealogy, and you can agree to let you know police enforcement use your DNA. Like everything, everything you could possibly think of. Save searches and news alerts for the jewelry she was wearing, the scrub she was wearing, anyone you know that is between the ages that she was when she disappeared, it's it's it's the worst kind of puzzle there is. It's it the kind of thing that keeps you up at night.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

Yes, we describe what we're doing as a puzzle as well, and that it you sometimes it just takes that one last piece to complete the puzzle. Um, and that's an analogy that I've used several times since we've sort of started this journey. So as we kind of get to like a wrap of our conversation with you, is there anything that you would like to share that you haven't had the opportunity to share?

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Yeah, actually. I haven't had the opportunity to share this. Just this one question. Jeff, why aren't you saying anything? Why aren't you talking? Why aren't you being interviewed? Why don't you stand up for your wife?

SPEAKER_00 54:49

You've been listening to Tragedy, a true crime podcast. Our purpose is to honor victims by sharing their stories through the voices of friends, family, and those whose lives were forever changed. If today's episode resonated with you, we encourage you to subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast so these important stories continue to be heard. Together, we can preserve their memories and ensure their voices are never forgotten. If you have ideas for cases we should cover or questions about what you heard, you can connect with us through our Facebook group, Tragedy a True Crime Podcast, on X at Tragedy Podcast, by email at TragedyAtrue Crime Podcast at gmail.com, or by visiting our website www.tragedyatrucrime podcast.com. Thank you for listening, and we hope you'll join us next time.